Dinosaur Companion?

[Rotku]

See the Standards Forum for the arguments for and against (although there aren't many either way at present).

Do you feel Dino companions should be allowed for Druids?

Option 1: Remove the feat alltogether. Simple change technically (a "0" to a "1" in feats.2da), though if we want to have it blocked for newly rolled PCs before 1.23 switchover, it'll also require a start area convo adjustment on both servers.

Option 2: Allow the feat, but add a level requirement, so the Uberdino isn't going into the hands of 1st-3rd level PCs. Again, simple change in feats.2da; again, would need start area exceptions for both servers until 1.23.

Option 3: Allow as Extraordinary. The fashionable compromise selection of the season, add it to the growing list of races, classes, and feats which require special permission. Again, would require the start area script adjustments for both servers, though this option would require them post-1.23 as well.

Option 4: Leave as-is, try to watch anyone who takes Dino companion for any signs of abuse. (Not sure how one would draw the line here, turning a summonable 4th level beast with +7 AB and 3 att/rnd loose on spawns feels like abuse to be, but it's perfectly IC in terms of "feeding my giant dinosaur friend".)

The Poll will run for seven days.

[pangolin]

What makes this so powerful is that it requires a FEAT! Feats are no small change in any version of DND and even less so in a PW like ALFA. I also disagree with the restrictions regarding cold climate. There are a number of theories that suggest Dromaeosaurs (deinonychus, velociraptor, etc) were, in fact, warm blooded, due to the speed with which they hunted and the fossil records of their pack hunting tendencies. On another note, I personally haven't seen any indication that a character cannot be from Chult, but brother, you better RP it!

What it comes down to is that if PNP allows them at 7th, then so be it.

[Veilan]

A feat that gives you a 4th level fighter companion at 1st level isn't in any way comparable to a feat that gives you +1 to hit, though. For that, a feat is small change.

The NWN 2 implementation was designed for a combat centered OC where you might well need the meatshield to slaughter through the campaign at ease, an approach rather unfit for ALFA, especially considering the mobs to slaughter could be other PCs, too.

Whether dinosaurs are more immersive than cowbows, on the other hand, is simply a question of taste .

[hollyfant]

Making the Dino available only at character level 7 has a small problem: it requires a character reroll, as NWN2 doesn't allow the previous AC to be "dismissed".

[Brokenbone]

Animal Companions (ACs) if I recall correctly, are in PnP sort of "always around", they're not a magical summons which instantly pop onto a battlefield (like a Summon Creature spell, a Figuring of Wondrous Power type item, or even a Paladin warhorse which chills in the Upper Planes between visits).

While ALFA definitely does not give a crap about food, water, shelter etc., I'm fairly sure that at least a little care is given to environment for the sake of ACs. If your PC is at a tavern, their bear is not allowed to sit at the bar. Maybe their wolf could be curled up at their feet if it was someplace really rustic, or their badger could be rustling around in a duffel bag. Their brontosaurus (or whatever the actual eligible -sauruses are) though would probably be disliked as much as the bear.

Now, that's a social / civilization thing, the business of not having a sabre toothed tiger with your PC in a beer hall or a jeweller's or whatever. I guess it could also be an architecture thing as well, just like in ALFA's NWN1, people were discouraged from having their horses follow them into bars, up stairs, ladders, through other "man-sized" doors, etc. You'd probably not want big beefy animals/reptiles climbing through sewer grates and whatnot either.

What, though, about the weather? Chult's jungles definitely are hospitable to them, it's absolutely core to that region of Faerun, the idea that jungle dwarves, wacky jungle goblins, and T-Rexes will all spice up your trip there. I guess that some river delta or swamp in the Western Heartlands has certain dinosaurs (people have posted snippets from FRCS), presumably that's a temperate region. I do not know if this'd mean that regardless of how any poll goes, HDMs would look at how they view their region / turf, and say if dinosaurs were "no can do" in some or all of their turf? Example, were Teric to say "green light throughout WH", or Curmudgeon to say "red light throughout TSM", does that work? Again, yes, a globetrotting druid could still have a dinosaur companion, who he leaves SAFELY in some hot tropical swamp when he decides to go on a pilgrimage to some glacier, just he won't be expected to use the AC when he's visiting that region. Just like people wouldn't be expected to summon a bear AC when they're in the 20th level of a ladder-infested dungeon ("uh, he was in my backpack"), although casting a Summon Creature V would be okay.

Anyhow, as to the poll... I wonder if Option 2 might require further refinement. PnP Level 7 Druids do not need to blow a feat if wishing for a dinosaur, but the dinosaur's attributes are somehow penalized as compared to what'd happen if your level 7 PC summoned a bear, badger, or other standard critter. I'm not sure how the math works out (i.e., does the NWN2 version end up much stronger than the PnP version, perhaps exactly enough to justify spending a feat?), but if Option 2 ends up the winner, that might need looking at. Again, feats are precious... but again, maybe NWN2 battle buddies are beefier than the ones found in PnP.

[AcadiusLost]

From a mechanics standpoint... the dinosaur is +7 AB with 3 attacks per round, and 45 hitpoints. That's how it starts out for a 1st level druid, I presume it gets even stronger with leveling. I'm not quite sure how that could possibly be construed as a "fair and balanced" 1st level feat. Seems to me it's firmly in the camp of "wacky stuff that's fun for single-player, but you wouldn't want to see it in your Persistent World".

I don't usually go in for the "this is too powerful" arguments, but seems like this is a pretty obvious one somehow.

[Mulu]

As far as dinosaurs v climate is concerned, I'm pretty sure that Endure Elements is a 1st level druid spell, unless that has been changed here. Dinosaurs were also warm blooded. If you can take a chultan cat from the jungle to TSM, the dinosaur shouldn't have too many more issues. A druid would know how to properly manage an animal in an environment that is hostile to it anyway, through diet, herbs, oils, whatever.

As far as dinosaurs v society is concerned... yeah that seems like a legitimate problem. A real druid would eschew town anyway, and can always leave dino parked in some game rich area while he's in town shopping.

As far as dinosaurs v game balance is concerned, I did vote for option 2, available at 7th level. That seems like a good compromise, assuming it can be done tech wise.

Personally I always wanted my chultan druidess to have a big anaconda as her AC.

[Brokenbone]

Dino companions in NWN2 are juiced up from the versions even a Druid 7 in PnP could hope to get, including that the PnP Druid 7 has to use a table as if he were six levels lower in terms of the dino acquiring abilities like natural armor adjust, saves, etc.

Maybe this means a feat'd still be appropriate to burn, at 7th, to make up for the differences. *shrugs*

Also re: endure elements, NWN1 & 2 both made EE into a crazy buff soaking all kinds of elemental damage, as opposed to protecting folks on glaciers or in deserts. Still a good RP use though, if someone wanted to comfortably walk shirtless on a glacier, or buff Rover the Dinosaur (possibly to placate DMs who think it's ridiculous, but can at least respect you blowing a 1st level spell slot on Rover every single day, ha ha).

[NickD]

If it still requires a feat, wouldn't it make more sense to make it available at 6th? (Or even 9th if the dino is significantly more powerful than it would be in PnP?)