To fix permadeath

[Rick7475]

In light of Rotku's survery comments, I have a solution to reduce the number of PC deaths.

The permadeath doesn't work. It is innacurate. How can someone die near NPC's without receiving aid? What are the possibilities of someone coming across a wounded PC and saving them near a mian road.

When I was DM'ing often I would see a PC in trouble or walking into a dangerous situation, so I would animate an NPC to either give warning or even save a dying PC. This sort of DM intervention saved many PC's. This sort of interventionn is unavailable when DM's are busy elsewhere or not on. On main roads the likely-hood of a passerby coming across a wounded traveller is quite high (such as the Good Samaritan Biblical account).

PC's fear perma-death so much that there is little exploration or travel anywhere there is slight danger unless you are in a DM run party , or unless you have means of invisiblity, or hide in shadows like a thief. In a party members have healing and potions and PC's are safe. However, alone they are not, and let's face it, our technology does not ensure scaled encounters and so most PC's when they come across a hostile encounter will most likely die unless they are high levels which is rare for new members.

And when they die, newbies and even seasoned players may decide to leave. And you lose people. Check out Sword Rock in TSM and count how many PC's have died and the players are not playing anymore.


I stopped playing a PC myself when my favorate PC was killed walking on a road by a polar bear who came out of no where. Since it was a well traveled road (in fact a few moments later a party of PC's came across my corpse and happily looted it) the chances of someone finding and healing me were probably really good.

Now, since implementing a scripting system for chance saving of dead PC's is probably a logistical nightmare, I have an easier solution. Here it is:


1. If a PC dies, and there is a DM on, he/she should petition the DM for a chance saving roll. If a DM is not on, perhaps the PC can find a DM in chat or on the message boards who can also perform a chance saving roll.

2. The saving rolls could based on population table per area of a mod. The saving roll would be percentage of a chance encounter with someone who could render first aid or healing. The more popluated the area, the more chance. If the roll is successful, then there could be another roll for how much healing, or even if the PC was too badly wounded to save. So, for someone travelling north of Rivermoot on one of the quests, 80% chance of being found by an NPC or militia, and 90% if it is the quest near the planatation killing the orc where everyone always died.

3. A table could be devised by someone familiar with a mod to be used by the DM's to determine if the PC actually died or was saved.

4. Near towns there is plenty of people, in forests there are druids and rangers, so the likelihood of being saved is great.

5. The roll could also be applied against enemy forces, when a PC is wounded in battle, he/she may be captured instead of draining away negative hps, and may roll against a table for prison duration, escape, exchange of prisoners, ransome, or execution (and whatever other goodies one's imagination may add to the tally of fun a captor would have with a prisoner).


I believe if you adopt a system that avoids instant permadeath and gives PC's a chance to live then more may take risks and players that have had their favorite PC killed (or even newbies that die so fast and leave) may stick around.


Another good example is the old time WD sewers that claimed so many new PC's abnd players who never returned. According to canon the sewers were patrolled by a plumbers guild, who could have saved lives.

In TSM the Artgent Legion often has patrols but they are for technical reasons not implemented so PC's die without being saved. I saw several bodies in the Silvermoon catacombs of TSM only a short ditance for the main guard post.

[Riotnrrd]

From what little I've seen in TSM, most of the people that have died in the past couple of months, have died because they were traveling alone.

[dergon darkhelm]

If a player is "dying"" but stabilized I could see a system for it.

But most PCs die by D&D rules....they bleed out to -10 quickly (over the course of less than a minute for most). A "good smaritan happening by" is unlikely, even along a fairly well trafficked road. If there are NPCs right there (as in within spawn range) then perhaps some aid script (or petition system) could be appropriate.

A more fitting system would be one that either brought the corpse to town or looted it or ate it, imho.

A system that would significantly reduce the threat of death of -10 would simply make more people solo.

leave it as is (just my prefence)

[AcadiusLost]

I could certainly add a script hook into the OnDying event that checks for "friendly" NPCs in visual range, and orders them (or has a % chance of ordering them) to move to the fallen PC and attempt a stabilization or healing. Would this really make a difference for very many PCs or players, though? I've never had a PC bleed out when right near NPC guards before; usually it's out and about when these things happen. I'm not certain the value of such a system justifies the development/testing time. If it were a 100% thing, I'd expect all it would do would be to encourage baiting mobs back towards your local friendly Bandaging NPCs, though.

[johnlewismcleod]

K...I got completely carried away and posted entirely too much text there

Before finding ALFA I briefly played on a PW that had respawn with some degree of XP penalty. While I was surprised by the good RP among the player base there, it soon became clear that respawn was insidiously corrupting RP. Respawned PC's would commonly hurry from the loading area and gather groups to go reclaim the gear from their own dead bodies, absurd idea's were floated about like: "sure it's ok to kill and loot someone, just make sure you keep their gear separate in inventory so they can reclaim it later...", and my favourite, "the idea is to gather loot and XP, and hopefully get some RP in along the way...", etc.

While the players and staff professed that respawn was a feature necessary to "enhance" Rp by staving off attrition and various other rationals, what it actually did foster an obsession with gear and XP.

Permadeath is essential for immersion and fostering appreciation of RP.

I have some issues with some of our mechanics that prevent one helping another PC when dying, but to waterdown permadeath is a sure way to undercut the RP on the server.

[Rotku]

And there I was, thinking this was a thread about how to make sure people stayed dead...

I think AL is spot on with his comments. Would certainly be a good system, but only really worth it if it effects enough people..

[mr duncan]

From what little I've seen in TSM, most of the people that have died in the past couple of months, have died because they were traveling alone.

This post should have ended the thread. DnD is not a solo sport, it is a team game. Given the nature of timezones and scattered players... we DO have some soloing, but going it alone should always be high risk low reward. (this is why we have those low risk high reward statics on the server though)

Id like to also point out while we have this topic suggesting we make it easier here in the marches, there is another topic thats full of folks requesting a tougher server.



J

[HEEGZ]

The current implementation of permadeath is one of my main draws to ALFA. Please don't change it. I'm all for asking DMs for help and things, but don't make soloing easier to do, we have WoW for that.

[ElCadaver]

Permadeath is essential to the ALFA experience and makes it a realisitc experience. All the excitement of a close pitched battle would be gone if you knew only an xp penalty rested on its outcome. So people leave? Well, its not for them. All long term players have gone through the mill of loosing lots of well loved character concepts before learning the wisdom of survival in ALFA, I know I did. Even when I was experienced, sometimes random things happen, like that one time I chose to open a locked draw with my monk (fists), and it electrocuted him. Stuff happens.

Caveat: Sloppy DM spawn (polar bear) left on AT may be a grounds for a resurrection.

[Rotku]

All long term players have gone through the mill of loosing lots of well loved character concepts before learning the wisdom of survival in ALFA, I know I did.

And there are some who never learn...

[Swift]

Saying you have a way to fix permadeath implies that it does not currently work, something i would disagree with.

Protip: ALFA is not friendly to solo'ers. Deal with it.

[dob85y]

I stopped in at a fairly well build LotR server, and lasted 2 weeks cause they didnt have permadeath. It my not be something that you immedatly realise, but with out it there is no fear or respect given to dangerous situations.

And well, it gets boring.

BTW, the currnt NPC's encoundered on the roads, do fight against enemy creatures, I once ATed into an NPC cleric of Meilekki casting cause light wounds on a badger. And I have had a stallion help attack kobolds.

[dergon darkhelm]

.......... And I have had a stallion help attack kobolds.

After all that time someone finally implemented the Paladin's mount!

[Veilan]

Hardcore mode isn't for everyone but recommended only for experts. If the thrills and fear of dying do not appeal to you, stick with normal mode.

[hollyfant]

most of the people that have died in the past couple of months, have died because they were traveling alone.

DnD is not a solo sport,

don't make soloing easier to do, we have WoW for that.

ALFA is not friendly to solo'ers. Deal with it.

How to drive players away.

Step 1: Tell them not to play when they're alone.
Step 2: Make sure the server is completely empty at certain hours, to avoid new players signing on.
Step 3: Concentrate players and DMs at specific times and focus on grand events. The ones left out will eventually leave.
Step 4: Whenever a DM leaves, "his" or "her" group will dissipate. New DMs won't find a group of their own and leave too.
Step 5: Wait until regular attrition causes all DMing to cease.

Step 1 completed.
Step 2 in progress...