A Land Far Away

I just noticed the other thread and thought that folks might post here about it.

Often the choice to be in party is often one of convenience for the DM team (chat etc).

I know that when Malcer was partied with Vonnes, Aurenthil and Soppi in the drow attack quest there was, at least from my perspective) no implicit notion of expected aid or support. Hell, if Soppi would have just gotten to "near death" instead of just "badly wounded" I would have left party and whacked her.


Seriously though. IIRC, you can not initiate CvC from within party, but there are accounts of party affiliations changing mid-event when someone decide it is time to strike.

"Partied" doesn't necessarily mean "allied"

I beg to differ.

Paladins are under strict orders never to "associate" with evil characters. Partying is "associating". Not-partying is "happen to be in the same spot at the same time". There's a world of difference between the two.
Also, party members benefit form certain boons: Bard song, courage auras and the Natural Leader feat if it worked. There's not just an implicit camaraderie, it's enforced by the engine too.

Aye, Dergons looking at it from rp aspect, while Holly and def. I have been looking at it tech wise. There are the certain benefits as listed above, plus the party xp for kills, that entail one should at least be helping in combat. I would never party with a person who just sat back and soaked up xp from other peoples work...you have to be doing something. I veiw healing as a different story. If you're in party and it isn't IC for you to heal/revive another that is in party, I personally see nothing wrong with that. However, being in party and not helping in a conflict where you are getting xp for that conflict is a no fly zone in my book. At the least, unparty during the conflict, then re-party after. And I recognize being in party with a Wood-elf ranger of good intent, a Banite cleric of lawful intent, a hin druid of neutral intent and a Kosuthan wizard of unknown intent fighting Werebeasts doesn't neccessarily mean everyone in party is my friend, and that someone may try to backstab my PC. IE...party doesn't neccessarily mean allied in worldveiw....just allied in the goal that is trying to be achieved, with every PC having their own reason and motivation.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/palad ... associates

The orders regarding association still requires "knowing" your new associate is evil, or acts consistently contrary to a moral code the pally has established for himself (possibly with DM input and aid... see ewayneself's "The Twelve Lessons" in the library for one example of an agreed code, though how the author came about it was an Wayne special).

Example, paladin knowingly associating with the famous CG bandit, Robin Hood, would be screwed. No, Robin isn't evil, but robbing ANYONE is unlikely to conform to 99% of paladin codes. Even robbing jerks, that's an unlikely loophole for a well thought out pally concept.

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Anyhow I'd still not think of "partying" as "allying", and any engine effects regarding combat buffs or misbegotten XP for a wallflower could be regarded as OOC and in need of adjustment by honest players working with their DMs. "Gee I got 100xp but was sitting back at camp when the sentries killed the beasties, are you sure I was supposed to get that?" Technical limitations shouldn't be drivers of "how to behave ICly." That is "oh, you got 10xp for that, you are therefore obliged to be my ally in the future to justify that!" Or "that Bless spell enhanced your attacks, it therefore must be true that your PC really is supportive to my causes, if you stop being supportive you're a cheater!"

Stop it! All these smart thoughtful threads is giving this forum a very un-ALFA like image!

I would point out that the SRD brings up the subjective nature of "ally," and it amounts to pretty much what a party is in NWN. If a person is working with you at the time a spell is cast or an ability is used, the person is an ally for the purposes of those spells. Even if a Tyrran and a Malarite are somehow matched to hunt down a monster (maybe it's a danger to society and a nifty trophy that a certain Malarite intends to glory hog the kill of), that Tyrran's bless helps the Malarite by PnP, too, and DMs would ask you all to be in party for the sake of keeping track of yonder monster-hunting group. If the Malarite decided that the Tyrran would be more fun to hunt after that bless was cast, sucks to be the Tyrran, but at least the next ones won't help him (just as in NWN, as declaring hostility requires that you drop party.)

To the XP thing, yeah... I'm with BB. That's not time to screw up communication through party chat; that's something ya write down and mention to the DM at the end of the session. ("Hey, I got <number> XP from fights I didn't really contribute to." so DM can say "Aight, I'll gank that. *gank*" ... unless you're playin' sans-DM, but then you're not in party chat and it's not an issue, right? Right.)

"To the XP thing, yeah... I'm with BB. That's not time to screw up communication through party chat; that's something ya write down and mention to the DM at the end of the session. ("Hey, I got <number> XP from fights I didn't really contribute to." so DM can say "Aight, I'll gank that. *gank*" ... unless you're playin' sans-DM, but then you're not in party chat and it's not an issue, right? Right.)"

Agreeing with the dm gank at end of session completely.

However, realize that some of us do play sans dm, and do use party without a dm on because it is encouraged IG through NPC dialouge during statics. I know I have done this in the past months, and know many others that have too. Right? Right. So the ganking during those times is not doable, ergo going back to the original "If you aren't going to fight, don't party and act like you are going to participate then stand around doing nothing" premise.

But I totally agree during dm events a gank of exp from responsible players afterward is the best approach by far.

One is never prevented from reporting "too good to be true" situations that arise in DMless play. This could be on ACR things like XP spitting out, or an otherwise guilty conscience ("My paladin teamed up with some known priests of evil patrons to achieve Static XYZ, oops what happens now?")

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Anyhow, standing around "doing nothing" may also, ICly, be awaiting the right opportunity to strike. This can be the case for casters needing to conserve spells, letting their comrades do certain gruntwork (why waste your magic missiles on rats, when you've got a guy in full plate who seems to like hitting them with his greatsword?), or for flanker/sneak attackers who wait to see whether a big fish engages one of their party, and if that partymate will or won't need help with the big fish? Standing still (or edging towards an escape route) might also represent sitting there with a finger hovering on the Wand of Darkness no one knows you carry, in case you have to blackout the whole scene and call a retreat for the comrades you've judged got in over their heads. It might also be roleplay of "who's the boss" or "who's a cool cucumber", simply standing there with a *crosses arms* emote and watching your lessers win the field for you (and hoping no AI mob decides to ruin your pose by running in and forcing you to break a sweat). Still exposed to harm, you never know what makes the AI tick, often they smell someone with a caster class and will run hell bent for you, whether there's ten fighters who'd AoO them to death in passing, or not.

Interesting discussion, though, I think a lot of similar views are being expressed, but there's going to be facets on which there's disagreement. There's D&D for you.

As long as a high level PC doesn't party with a low level with the intent of plowing through mobs or quests while the low level reaps the benefits while tending to her manicure, then I see no problem with PC's "standing around" or not fighting while in party. The above is powerleveling and a no no similar to twinking a newbie with overpowered items. Not contributing while in party, however, can be absolutely legit in terms of RP as BB has pointed out, and can actually be real fun to RP after the fact in my experience -- i.e can lead to party confrontations over lack of effort, loot divisions etc. If it is RPd I say let em keep their XP -- experience can be earned by getting others to do your fighting for you or talking your way out of the resulting confrontation -- or even learning your lesson after your dressed down for being a coward =) As long as the lack of contribution is IC its seems OK to me, if it is motivated by an OOC reason to get XP for no effort then I agree wholeheartedly with Dan.

Well...I agree with everyone. I've just got one question for Oldgrey....uhmmmm....what's loot?

johnlewismcleod wrote:Well...I agree with everyone. I've just got one question for Oldgrey....uhmmmm....what's loot?

Silly hin -- loot is rusty swords, grappling hooks, fishing nets, candles and rotten quarterstaves of coarse. Oh and bottles of ink.

Don't you forget the bar stools!