I have seen alot of discussion about these two sublects and wanted to offer an idea.
What if a when a player decided to Retire a character, they were able to start a character a number of levels lower than there retiring level, for example 4 less than the retiring level. As a sideline to this, you sould roll in the ECL for starter levels to make it a little easer on those who decide to play them. EG a lv 8 retiring character could start a ECL 3 character at lv 2?
Just a thought.
Re: Starting beyond lv1 and planetoouched races.
Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:10 am
by Kest
Welp, I know how this thread will turn out.
Re: Starting beyond lv1 and planetoouched races.
Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:10 pm
by Nalo Jade
cool idea, but....
There is a vocal portion of ALFA that will in essence say ...
"It took me 2 years to reach 5th level, It is therefore cheating or PGing for anyone else to reach this level with out having sacrificed the same as me."
Good luck really, it may be the "kiss of death" for your idea but I like it, it would of course need some refining and then testing...but I think it could work.
Re: Starting beyond lv1 and planetoouched races.
Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:16 pm
by hollyfant
It's not the idea that I mind, but it it does leave me to wonder...
Why?
Don't you like playing at first level? And if so, wouldn't it be more constructive to lobby for more XP for everyone?
Re: Starting beyond lv1 and planetoouched races.
Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:57 pm
by fluffmonster
our nwn1 world is basically just campaigns. There's really no reason commensurate latitude shouldn't be given to the DMs who are running those campaigns to start PCs at a level other than 1, or bring new PCs into campaigns at a level consistent with the campaign.
This runs against some very strongly held alfa values, but we need to get over that. This place is not what was envisioned, and some of those values are meant for a kind of play that just doesn't happen in nwn1 any more. Its not an ad-hoc place, it is a campaign place. Letting it be that doesn't threaten the kind of play in the nwn2 servers (which is much closer to the ad hoc play that was always the alfa assumption). Let the differentiation between the two that exists flourish.
To the nwn1 people...I'd say if you continue to be bound by a straightjacket that doesn't fit, take the playgrounds and go with your own PW. What support is alfa offering you that's so important that you have to continue to play the round peg trying to fit a square hole? Please don't interpret this as me saying you don't belong here because of you or that you are somehow undesirable, that's not it. What I am suggesting is that you take the initiative and cast off the shackles if no one else will do so.
Re: Starting beyond lv1 and planetoouched races.
Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:21 pm
by psycho_leo
fluffmonster wrote:
This runs against some very strongly held alfa values, but we need to get over that. This place is not what was envisioned, and some of those values are meant for a kind of play that just doesn't happen in nwn1 any more. Its not an ad-hoc place, it is a campaign place. Letting it be that doesn't threaten the kind of play in the nwn2 servers (which is much closer to the ad hoc play that was always the alfa assumption). Let the differentiation between the two that exists flourish.
Amen to that.
Re: Starting beyond lv1 and planetoouched races.
Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:57 pm
by Rotku
I don't like the idea of giving people bonuses if they got their new character past X level. I don't know why, it just sounds wrong. Maybe it's because I have never got my character to a high enough level to have any benefit. Maybe because I think that each character is a new entity, and shoulnd't be effected by the previous character. If we were to go the route of allowing people to start above level 1, it would have to apply equally to everyone (NB: Not every platform, however - ie. NWN1 and not NWN2), not just a select few.
Re: Starting beyond lv1 and planetoouched races.
Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:58 pm
by Kest
hollyfant wrote:Don't you like playing at first level?
haaaaaaaaaaaaa
Re: Starting beyond lv1 and planetoouched races.
Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:09 pm
by Rotku
First level is great fun. Best there is. Everyone should be forced to start at 1 with forced retirement or level cap at 999xp.
As to the topic of the thread, reminds me of the "Character Tree" in old Dark Sun, AD&D 2nd ed. Can't find those old books, but found someplace that summarized it at least.
Spoiler:
Character Trees
Another approach to the same idea is the 'character tree' concept from the AD&D Dark Sun setting.
Each player has a cluster of characters, each of which knows the others in a vague or distant way (not
necessarily friends or family -- in a more traditional campaign, they might all be members of the same
adventurers' guild). Each player plays just one of those characters in an adventure. The others are
inactive during that time -- resting, healing, working, practicing, researching, or having minor
adventures of no importance. If you are in the mood to play a cleric at the start of an adventure (or if the
DM insists the group will need a cleric along), then you play your cleric for that adventure. If you were
in the mood for something else instead, then you played a different character. You could switch
characters under certain conditions -- generally, if the group was in a safe location where you could
rationally explain the other character's presence. No fair switching in the middle of a fight! But if you
hit a nice little oasis, the half-giant could wander off shortly before the elf strolls in. Besides giving
players more variety in their characters, this also provides a smooth mechanism for introducing backup
characters when a primary character die, regardless of whether the slain character ever returns to play.
Bingo! You get diversity and flexibility while still retaining a sense of cohesion. You could play a oneshot
adventure with one group of characters, a second adventure with a different group, and a third
adventure with a mix of both groups. Not only do you get variety in your personal character but in the
group composition, too. This is similar in some ways to the 'every adventure is a new campaign' idea
mentioned above, except the old characters don't just disappear into never-land. They stay on call and
can pop back up again repeatedly.
The character tree allows players to tailor the party to specific missions where one kind of character is
more needed than another (certain missions, for example, might place more emphasis on fighters while
others emphasize wizards). Players can replace characters from their trees when those characters
becomes boring. Finally, the Dark Sun rules included a mechanism that allowed one of your lower-level
characters to also gain a 'free' level when a higher-level character advanced. That way, one favored
character didn't outstrip all the others and wind up being the only seeing play.
Not that I necessarily advocate it, i.e., a "stable" of advancing-yet-unplayed PCs, for ALFA, but it's another approach to keeping people involved and enjoying themselves. Not that dissimilar to the OP's post (i.e., having a "backup PC" at n-3 levels, or something).
Re: Starting beyond lv1 and planetoouched races.
Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:45 pm
by Vendrin
I am in support of anything that helps remove the drudgery of lv1.
Re: Starting beyond lv1 and planetoouched races.
Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:08 pm
by Rotku
Wouldn't it be better just to allow NWN1 DMs to give increased amount of XP to push campaign players through low levels fast? That way they still experience levels and get a limited amount of development through those levels, yet quickly get enough to catch up to the campaign level.
Re: Starting beyond lv1 and planetoouched races.
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:10 am
by danielmn
For my soundboard... for NWN1 only.
I am opposed to starting PC's out higher than 1st level at the beginning of a campaign.
I am in favor of starting PC's out higher than 1st level in the middle of a campaign.
I am neither when it comes to xp awards being increased to catapult PC's through early levels.
Retirement should not bring benefit in itself. If one Retires a PC to take part in a campaign after the campaign is off the ground, I do approve bumping that PC's level up so that they aren't instatoast at the first encounter they come across.
I suppose if any still playing NWN1 has a problem with making it a bit easier for players to get in on the action by increasing the level as they enter a campaign, I guess they can go ahead and cut off their noses to spite their faces, right?
Re: Starting beyond lv1 and planetoouched races.
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:57 am
by ElCadaver
The thing that bums me out is having to fight rats and bats everytime you start a PC. The game has so many cool higher level enemies, which can be incorporated into great campaigns, but no one is every capable of facing them. I mean, you just can't have combat with a pit fiend at lvl1, it just doesn't work.
