NWN2 Planetouched - opinions
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NWN2 Planetouched - opinions
There have been no recent public discussions on this. As PA, this issue has been gentle brushed into my direction. Without a DMA and with our next DMA needing time to adjust, I'll see what I can do.
Based on what I've read, there are three main issues regarding Planetouched races
1. They are supposed to be rare and should not dominate the population
2. They are too powerful/unbalanced
3. The NWN2 models for the Tiefling and Genasi are inappropriate and inadequate for roleplay-heavy ALFA.
Regarding 1.
I understand that high amounts of Tieflings have been an issue for one or more ALFa servers in the past. If anyone could elaborate, please do. I remember reading something like this somewhere but don't have a clue where.
Regarding 2.
Gameplay balance has always been a hit iron for ALFA. Heck, it has been a hot iron for most multiplayer gameworlds. Because ALFA is roleplay-centric I'm personally not overly worried about statistics and builds. I'm interested in hearing what others have to say on the matter.
Regarding 3.
I was told that with tieflings in particular, the NWN2 estethics are not very appropriate. In D&D, the appearance of a tiefling in not as outspoking - no goat horns, no tail, etc. They're supposed to be hard to distinct from humans.
As for Genasi, I'm pretty sure my character would run for a bucket of water to quench the poor bugger if he ever came across a fire Genasi. Their appearances really are way out of line for D&D, IMO.
I realise there has been discussion on this in the past but I'd like to give a new oppertunity to discuss this directly with me.
[edit]May I add that it's Paazin and AL that are currently working hard on a stance on this. Their discussion, as well as the general urging I've noticed in the past, is what prompted me to post this today.
Based on what I've read, there are three main issues regarding Planetouched races
1. They are supposed to be rare and should not dominate the population
2. They are too powerful/unbalanced
3. The NWN2 models for the Tiefling and Genasi are inappropriate and inadequate for roleplay-heavy ALFA.
Regarding 1.
I understand that high amounts of Tieflings have been an issue for one or more ALFa servers in the past. If anyone could elaborate, please do. I remember reading something like this somewhere but don't have a clue where.
Regarding 2.
Gameplay balance has always been a hit iron for ALFA. Heck, it has been a hot iron for most multiplayer gameworlds. Because ALFA is roleplay-centric I'm personally not overly worried about statistics and builds. I'm interested in hearing what others have to say on the matter.
Regarding 3.
I was told that with tieflings in particular, the NWN2 estethics are not very appropriate. In D&D, the appearance of a tiefling in not as outspoking - no goat horns, no tail, etc. They're supposed to be hard to distinct from humans.
As for Genasi, I'm pretty sure my character would run for a bucket of water to quench the poor bugger if he ever came across a fire Genasi. Their appearances really are way out of line for D&D, IMO.
I realise there has been discussion on this in the past but I'd like to give a new oppertunity to discuss this directly with me.
[edit]May I add that it's Paazin and AL that are currently working hard on a stance on this. Their discussion, as well as the general urging I've noticed in the past, is what prompted me to post this today.
Last edited by Demson on Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NWN2 Planetouched - opinions
It hasn't been the case on ALFA since we've never allowed them, but it has been the case on every single other server/PW that has ever included them.Demson wrote: Regarding 1.
I understand that high amounts of Tieflings have been an issue for one or more ALFa servers in the past. If anyone could elaborate, please do. I remember reading something like this somewhere but don't have a clue where.
Balance, eh. And I'm not sure what the problem is with the appearance, they all look exactly like the drawings from the books. The tieflings are missing some of their more subtle options (and don't have the full range), but the genasi look spot on to me.
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The only concern I have for this discussion is that there better be a good reason for someone to be playing one. As long as there is HDM/DM approval for a PT PC background and why they are around (even more so than a "normal" PC race due to their extraordinary nature), then there shouldn't be cause for any lapse in continuity. ALFA's standards should ensure that we can trust people to roleplay appropriately.
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If they're going to be built from scratch based on humans to avoid the Obsidian graphics, then you may want to also consider using a lesser races version if there is one to avoid the ECL issue as well. That would kill any perception of imbalance, leaving only issue #1 numerosity.
Servers tend to get into ruts, where there are a bunch of elves or a bunch of hin or whatever. A bunch of tieflings that pass as human wouldn't really break anything.
Servers tend to get into ruts, where there are a bunch of elves or a bunch of hin or whatever. A bunch of tieflings that pass as human wouldn't really break anything.
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1. They are supposed to be rare and should not dominate the population
Agreed. Nothing worse than walking into a town full of tieflings. Make them a special race that requires HDM approval.
2. They are too powerful/unbalanced
I have no problem with this. I think all classes and races have their distinct advantages/disadvantages. We are an RP server, I never understood why balance was such a big issue.
3. The NWN2 models for the Tiefling and Genasi are inappropriate and inadequate for roleplay-heavy ALFA.
With tieflings, the wings and tails are a bit much, The horns you can hide with a hood or hat etc. Genasi are another issue all together. But I would be willing to roll with it as long as the numbers are limited to very rare.
I am more concerned with the RP surrounding a race like tieflings. Will they be KOS? If not, which I think is appropriate, then their players should clearly understand that they will likely be treated a certain way according to canon, no?
Agreed. Nothing worse than walking into a town full of tieflings. Make them a special race that requires HDM approval.
2. They are too powerful/unbalanced
I have no problem with this. I think all classes and races have their distinct advantages/disadvantages. We are an RP server, I never understood why balance was such a big issue.
3. The NWN2 models for the Tiefling and Genasi are inappropriate and inadequate for roleplay-heavy ALFA.
With tieflings, the wings and tails are a bit much, The horns you can hide with a hood or hat etc. Genasi are another issue all together. But I would be willing to roll with it as long as the numbers are limited to very rare.
I am more concerned with the RP surrounding a race like tieflings. Will they be KOS? If not, which I think is appropriate, then their players should clearly understand that they will likely be treated a certain way according to canon, no?
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1. If people are fearful of mobs of marauding tiefers about; why not just require DM permission to play. HDM approval is hardly necessary.
2. lol wut? They're tieflings, by all accounts drow are more powerful.
3. I say keep the horns and get rid of the tail stuff. Gensai are designed to look pretty out there as far as humans go.
2. lol wut? They're tieflings, by all accounts drow are more powerful.
3. I say keep the horns and get rid of the tail stuff. Gensai are designed to look pretty out there as far as humans go.
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1. Allow them - I think its a bad idea not to offer at least as much as the game offers out of the box.
2. As far as appearance - why make more work than we need to? Keep it simple - use them out of the box.
2. As far as appearance - why make more work than we need to? Keep it simple - use them out of the box.
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Re: NWN2 Planetouched - opinions
Sure, but even if every ALFA player made a Water Genasi... we still wouldnt have even a fraction of all of faeruns Water Genasi population.Demson wrote:
1. They are supposed to be rare and should not dominate the population
Currently ALFA allows drow and duergar, both as powerful, rare, and "neat" as any of our planetoched. Drow and Duergar have been allowed since nwn1... and our servers are not flooded with throngs of people wanting to play them.
Demson wrote:2. They are too powerful/unbalanced
Again we have drow (ECL2) and duergar (ECL1) already in our games and with similar stat increases. Once again our game is not dominated by these unregulated races.
The bonuses for all these races (ECL1) are about somwhere in between the bonuses you see for drow (ECL2) and humans (ECL 0). This means the math comes out about right.
Lastly, in a slow-advancement setting the ECL is MORE of a penalty than in a hack-n-slash server. It means SLOWER advancement.
Demson wrote: 3. The NWN2 models for the Tiefling and Genasi are inappropriate and inadequate for roleplay-heavy ALFA.
This notion is pretty silly. If you can be expected to RP alongside hulking piglike half-orc brutes then you can handle RPing alongside the fishman, or the part-celestial paladin.
Really since the planetouched are usually raised in a human setting, id say they are easier to play than something from an identifiable seperate non-human culture... like elves or dwarves. You want to restrict some races based on peoples ability to RP? You need to restrict elves and dwarves in that case.
As far as their looks, the source books look prettymuch like whats presented in nwn2. More variety is always good, but i dont think we need to hold on allowing them while the human hairstyles are added to the planetouched choices.
True you might run for a bucket of water when you meet a fire genasi... but then consider your first reaction to an orc, to seeing a wizard cast mage-armor, to your first sip of an invisibility potion, or the dark miracle of a skeleton that still walks about without its flesh.
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Last edited by mr duncan on Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Yeah i think this is the best plan really. Yes its possible we'll get a bagillion of tieflings but i don't wager we will with ALFA's slow leveling rate. Taking any ECL race is going to be a long tough road at the beginning.Mikayla wrote:1. Allow them - I think its a bad idea not to offer at least as much as the game offers out of the box.
2. As far as appearance - why make more work than we need to? Keep it simple - use them out of the box.
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Let's take the risk and see how it goes.
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Make em approval needed by hdm or dm so a flood does not occur.
We've had one round of this where the idea was put down, and a proposal was started by a player/ a group of players. My understanding was it was on them to make the arguement of implementation. Are you intending to backtrack and circumvent former Admin decisions? If so, what's the use of having an Admin at all if 6-8 months down the line their decisions are void? Not that I disagree with revisiting this issue, but I think it would be better to revisit it in the vein of former Admin than to keep on having polls every six months until the issue passes. Just something to consider.
Daniel
We've had one round of this where the idea was put down, and a proposal was started by a player/ a group of players. My understanding was it was on them to make the arguement of implementation. Are you intending to backtrack and circumvent former Admin decisions? If so, what's the use of having an Admin at all if 6-8 months down the line their decisions are void? Not that I disagree with revisiting this issue, but I think it would be better to revisit it in the vein of former Admin than to keep on having polls every six months until the issue passes. Just something to consider.
Daniel
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HDMs already have say over who plays on their server and who doesn't...just have planetouched consult with the HDM. That's enough to keep any population booms in check. As to the rest, just use what's in the game and role play it for what it is.
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