A Land Far Away

Without heated passions, just a quick survey of interest in creating a new ALFA NWN1 server that is 1.69 compatible.

I've been reading up on 1.69 issues, and given what I know of ALFA's ACR I think a fresh start is in order. For starters, 1.69 tends to cause DM Client crashes because of the "too many items in the palette" bug. I'm sure ALFA NWN1 has a ton of stuff in its palette that is broken or otherwise doesn't even get used. There are numerous old systems that haven't worked in years: dogs, horses, herbs, etc. HCR is also quite out of date and not really in use by the community of roleplayers anymore.

Building a new server using community content: CEP, CSB, Worms, Mirador, etc, all of which are updated to 1.69 already or will be very soon by those community contributors takes the tech end of the work out of the picture and leaves us with a lot of content to build with. It also lowers the bar to admission by making all the haks that need to be downloaded already highly used by the community. Plus that new content just looks awesome.

PC's transferring to an MKII server would likely be a one way trip, as they'd have to be stripped on entry to eliminate incompatible content. Easy enough to replace that content in the toolset with compatible content.

The way I see it, the platform only has a few years left in it. I say we let our hair down, tear down the walls that have been preventing a lot of player choice, and have some fun with an NWN1 server built with the best the community has to offer in the way of content.

I still build, DM, and play in NWN1 nearly every day. I haven't done it here for a host of reasons that aren't worth getting in to, but a clean slate approach to building an ALFA mod is very interesting to me.

If this sounds like something interesting to you, post below.

From the sounds of it, looks like you're proposing to start your own new NWN1 PW. It is probably for the best, since you seem very passionate about the game, and have some very specific ideas about how you believe things should be done. I sincerely wish you the best of luck with it. You may want to get you own forum set up for it, though.

If NWN1 isnt going to be really supported here I dont see the problem with him fishing for folks to come with him to make a server or taking a NWN1 ALFA server and redoing it and using these boards for now. No sense in cutting off contact for a whole group of folks who may want to give this a try.

I do Lusipher. if it's ALFA NWN1, that's one thing, but he's proposing something altogether different, so he should take his 'talent hunting' somewhere else.

Fact is, if he creates an ALFA NWN1 using 1.69, he'll still need to go through the arduous task of incorporating all of ALFA's haks, because everything is embedded in that tangle of haks. I.e., ACR, scripts, ALFA-specific content, etc. If he doesn't, he won't be compatible with all the other ALFA NWN1 servers.

And do consider, if he's 1.69, and the rest of the servers are not, then he's not part of ALFA, he's part of his own little PW. Mulu either hasn't thought this through, or he's 'talent hunting' for his own PW project.

Mulu is being divisive as usual. Truly a wonder he hasn't been banned yet.

I may be wrong, Roy, but werent our ALFA1 server put on the vault or maybe that was just talked about at one time. Im not really sure. I understand what your saying, but at this point in the game I honestly dont see any problem with it. If they can keep the NWN1 servers going and people are playing and having fun then so be it. At this point its about people still having fun not about stupid politics and who owns what nonsense. We seem to have forgotten about that for a long time now.

Anyway, my last thought on the matter. Good luck, Mulu. No matter what you end up doing here or elsewhere.

I don't want to belabor this. If you read Mulu's post, he is proposing to start from scratch, using community content altogether. This will, in effect, be a completely different project, incompatible with anything ALFA NWN1 presently has.

If all the other NWN1 ALFA contributors are on the same boat, then this is fine, but a solo endeavor is being presented, which serves merely to divide the community further.

In other words, either ALL of ALFA1 follows this route, or NONE do. It simply cannot be both, or we'll be hosting THREE community projects, all of which would be petering on the edge of collapse. Ludicrous.

The ALFA NWN1 community was specifically told it was "on it's own." To me, that means admin isn't really interested in the platform any more, and presents an opportunity to make a better ALFA NWN1.

I have no interest in running my own PW project. I have a life. I do think ALFA NWN1 would be better off with new content already updated to 1.69, and that most of the community already uses. ALFA ACR is outdated and bloated, and it's easier to scrap it than to fix it, IMO.

That will mean a transition to MKII servers when they are final. In the meantime, ALFA NWN1 servers run on 1.68 with the old ACR.

Fact of the matter is, I'm going to be building an FR mod with all new content anyway. If ALFA can use that mod, so much the better. But I'm sure not going to use ALFA haks. I think the current community content is superior, and of course it's already updated to 1.69. Why not take advantage of that?

Than i am correct. Your goal here is malicious (false quote) and your intent is to talent hunt for your own non-alfa mod. You state you won't run a PW, but that doesn't mean you won't run your own campaigns, via NWC, using the mod you built taking advantage of the talents in this community that you misled.

Mulu wrote:Fact of the matter is, I'm going to be building an FR mod with all new content anyway. If ALFA can use that mod, so much the better. But I'm sure not going to use ALFA haks.

No, you are as usual incorrect. I'm building a mod for my campaign. I'm willing to donate it to ALFA. You are also doing nothing but trolling, and not following the "if you are interested post here" instruction, but that's normal.

If there is no interest, so be it. I've got my own projects to work on. If my projects and ALFA can merge, well that's one more builder for ALFA, now isn't it?

Roy, drop it. Leave him be. Everything doesnt have to be an issue. Drop it. Let him see what folks might be interested and leave him alone. Enough is enough. You dont agree with him. We know. Stop having to get the last word on everything and just leave this thread alone for a bit. I cant make you, but im asking you nicely. I think all of us are really tired of fighting right now...at the moment its like a lich sucking the life force out of whats left of the project. So, please, stop arguing and just give him a break.

Lusipher, maybe it's because he's a major contributor to the reason why people are upset, and he doesn't know when to stop. He has now full admitted his intent to have the module built for his own campaign, totally disconnected from ALFA, which means i am correct, not incorrect as he claims. What he intends to build cannot be 'donated' to ALFA, because it would be completely incompatible. I am not trolling, i am exposing.

If Mulu wants to build his own project, fine, he can farm for talent somewhere else... but it is ludicrous to continue to allow him to divide this community and then attempt to grab what little talent remains for his own project.

But yes, i am done discussing this. I hope the community recognizes my intent within this thread, and is not confused by the banter of false claims.

I believe Mulu's mentioned his campaign module elsewhere several times, nothing nefarious there. My point is that if you're tossing the ACR and "starting from scratch", you'll basically be rewriting all of ALFA's scripted core rules. Switching to the CEP, dropping the elements of HCR we use, switching away from all the ALFA haks, you'll be both functionally incompatible, and fully independent from NWN1-ALFA. PCs won't transfer over smoothly (though you could rebuild them via LETO one by one), nor will any existing servers. Unless all the NWN1 HDMs and Admin get behind such a reimagining of our entire NWN1 front, you are certainly in the territory of a new and separate project. ALFA is already feeling the strain of managing two and a half parallel platforms (NWN1-Live, NWN2-Live, NWN2-Beta), I don't foresee adding a fourth (NWN1-Mulu) under the ALFA banner.

Both AL and WW are correct, Mulu. You are proposing a new project, with which I wish you luck. On the surface of it, there is no way to facilitate a merger, however. I have, in the past, visited other boards with friendly greetings to widen our community contacts and I'm sure the more connections to other projects the better, especially those created by past/present members. Recruiting directly on our forums or another project's forums whether or not under the belief that we could merge later is a tad distasteful, though, imo.

Whitey, there is no reason to be combative, however. The division between you and Mulu is longstanding, but you threw the first blow in this with your comment that you can't understand why he hasn't been banned. You're both unable to walk away from a fight, which has redirected the thread into bickering. Please don't be quarrelsome on these boards. It looks like a long-feuding husband/wife yammering at other because one of them left the fridge door open. Tempest meet kettle meet (tea)pot.

All of the above posted in my role as moderator. Responses taken by PM. Continuation of bickering in this thread with me or each other will be cause to lock it.

Thank you.

Let me list the fact as I see them. If I'm wrong on the facts, then it's a bad idea. If I'm right, then it's worth looking into.

Facts:
1. NWN1 ALFA is currently incompatible with 1.69.
2. The amount of effort it would take to go through every single item, creature, placeable, etc. in the current ALFA NWN1 mods would be roughly equivalent to just rebuilding a mod from scratch.
3. The community already has made updated 1.69 content that is visually superior to existing ALFA hak material.
4. New players coming into ALFA NWN1 will expect the servers to be at 1.69 and have the new tilesets and other custom content available on the vault.

Now, if I'm wrong about any of that, then the idea of an MKII rebuild is probably a moot issue. If I'm right, then it's worth discussing without histrionics or neurotic suggestions that I am the devil out to divide and conquer ALFA. My only underlying motive is I'd like to play on ALFA again, I don't like the NWN2 bleed rules, and I want the NWN1 servers to use the best custom content and be 1.69 compatible.

What I would do if we went the MKII route is build a "soundstage" mod because that's all we do at NWC, build an empty mod that a DM can use. After that, I hand it over to ALFA's NWN1 build team, if any, to add static content and such because I don't use that stuff. I would also before building discuss just what haks to add and what area to build, which I will otherwise simply decide on my own for my own campaign purposes.

Basically, I'm about to start building an FR NWN1 mod anyway, why not build it for ALFA? I suppose the "rules" scripts could be added later. I wouldn't want them in my version of the mod, of course, but if ALFA is married to the ACR so be it. I assume I can build areas and NPC's and whatnot without it being in there.

Responses stated in a reasoned manner welcome.