A Land Far Away

I honestly am very excited to get into the new books. Im also very upset at what ive been hearing in regards to how their shaking up the realms and the pantheons. I would like for us to discuss the new Forgotten Realms of 4ed.

What seems to be your favorite thing thats happened that you know of so far or whats the worst thing you have seen or heard so far in the new edition? What do you think of the new Dragonborn race? What about Abeir Toril? Has your favorite area of Faerun changed and if so what do you think of it?

Also, how many of you plan to use the Dungeons and Dragons 4ed Table top to play games online? I would love to get in with a solid group of players to play once we all have access to the new features.

Keep the discussion civil. Lets get some good debate going and also everyone remember that there will be spoilers included in this thread. If you dont want to know something you should probably not read further.

I like the prospect of being able to play table-top virtually.

My biggest problem with the new edition FR is that the Dragonborn just "appear" in what was the old Empires. That whole area is now their territory and they came from a rift just like the Old Gods did basically into the new FR. It was kinda stupid IMO. We also hear that the new Abeir Toril has a huge number of Dragonborn there as well. In this new area the Dragons of old never were pushed back by the elves and this group of dragons actually became a huge empire like those dating back to the beginning of time when dragons ruled Faerun. There is a lot here I still dont know and im dying to find out. Im really wondering how this will play out in regards to the Dragon Gods such as Tiamat and Bahamut. Theres been a ton of hints that the Gods are all changing and some are gone. So, im just hoping for the best here.

One thing Ive really been upset with is the Drow Pantheon. I just read somethings about the last book about the War between Lloth and Eilistraee. It seems that the folks at WoTC have killed off Eilistraee and Quile. Now all the Drow fall under Lloth. At the end of the book Corelleon comes down to face off with Lloth over the fate of the Drow.

Supposedly Lathander is no more. Hes been transformed or has been reborn into a new deity called Amaunator. This Gods alignment hasnt been confirmed but from what Ive read there are only these new alignments in 4ed:

Lawfull good
Good (diffence between CG and NG rather insignificat IMO)
unaligned
Evil (LE and NE very similar)
Chaotic Evil (also good mirror to LG kinda like Paladin vs Blackguard)


So, im thinking he will be LG.

Rather kicking myself for not reading a lot of the current books because a lot of changes have happened in them leading up to the spellplague. Also, Wotc said they wont really have any info on what happened in the 100 yrs between the spell plague and the new setting. I listened to a podcast that Richard Baker was speaking in and he said he would have a book series come out that is set during the gap, though.

Anyway, looking to hear what people think. Ill post more later. Lets keep this thread going.

FYI, Amaunator is not a new god, he was the god of the sun in the time of Netheril, he was LN god of the sun and time, iirc.

There has also been a cult within the church of Lathandar for a very long time known as The Risen Sun, condemned as heresy by the main church, but it turns out they were true.

Some followers of Lathander insist that he is in fact the reincarnation of Amaunator, the Netherese god of the sun. Others take this heresy further, claiming that he will take up the mantle of the lawful neutral Amaunator again, and that the transformation from deity of the morning to sun god is imminent. This also makes reference to an extremely similar Deity in the Greyhawk campaign setting: Pelor, the Sun God. Considering that Pelor is the chief (though not official) Deity of humans in his realm, it is not entirely unlikely that The Morninglord is an incarnation of Pelor, having migrated to Abeir-Toril along with the human race, having been enslaved by the ancient Imaskarian Empire.

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Nalo seriously stop mucking up threads especially this one. thank you.

Thanks for the insight, Vendrin. I did some checking and your right. I appreciate you pointing that out.

I am a bit miffed about the shake-up with canon events, gods, etc. myself, including the killing off of most of the drow pantheon (though, thank the goddess Lolth survives).

What really bothers me is the direction that the game itself has taken - I am no expert at MMOs, but I have to say, reading the new classes and powers and leveling, it reads (to me) more like World of Warcraft or Everquest than it does D&D. There are fewer spells, by far, there is no real multiclassing anymore (though you can kind of multi-class some powers and feats, sort of), and there are just a whole host of changes that seem more appropriate to an MMO than a PnP game. My fear is that 5th edition will never see the printed page - this is the 'transition' platform to take D&D from PnP game to MMO.

Like, lets take the armor - now there are fewer forms of armor: cloth, leather, hide, chainmail, scale mail and plate. But each one has exactly two upgrades. So, the upgrades are weirdly names - you don't have "Full Plate", you have "Godplate" - godplate? wtf? What kind of dumb-ass name is that? (pardon my french)

Also, the difference between monsters/NPCs and PCs is huge now (1 healing surge for NPCs/monsters - a dozen or so for average PCs), and then there are the 17th level 1 hit-point minions. I suppose I am going to have to see that in action to understand how that works.

Also, there are the "roles" each class fits into - controller, striker, defender, etc. Again, it sounds like we are putting together an MMO team (tank, nuke, puller, etc).

I will say a good thing though - the new encounter building system is WAY WAY WAY easier and more intuitive and simple than the old CR/Encounter Level system thingy. This new system is easy and it works (or at least seems to).

A lot of things are gone though - I didn't see mithril in there, or adamantine (but I saw "godplate" .. grr) and you can apparently whack and damage even a Balor or a Pit-Fiend with a non-magical weapon. Only lycanthropes have any sort of damage resistance to weapon damage, and you can get any weapon "silvered" - which means every adventurer past 2nd level will have every weapon silvered. Its kind of dumb - takes all the specialness out of it.

Anyway, I'm sure it has its good points, but right now, I am not liking the changes so much. Hmmph.

i am not excited at all ... 100 year advancement means 99% of human NPCs (and PCs) are dead

WotC trying to banish canon so the MMO ADHD crowd that they seek to buy product won't have to actually digest history, just kill the next boss monster

they make all these reasons why they HAVE to advance 100 years to make the story mesh with the 4ED ruleset...

and yet Eberron didn't advance timeline hmmm...

read these 51 pages of a thread but get your pukebags ready

http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9912

deicide, NPCicide, country-icide, region-icide, any "-icide" you can think of they have

county-genesis, race-genesis, class-genesis

on the whole, wholly immersion breaking, might as well make a new setting

HOPEFULLY, we all buy FR guide second hand, they lose their @$$ on FR, and give the rights to FR back to Ed

Good points of the new game system (not setting changes):

The Vancian magic system is more or less gone.

Parties can now go on and on and on, so long as they get a little break between encounters. No more of the "adventure for 30 minutes, rest and heal for 2 days, adventure for an hour, rest and heal for 3 days" kind of routine. Now, you hit an encounter .. rest for a little while (a few minutes) and go on to the next encounter, etc. After a few encounters, you might need a longer break (6 hours) - but really, it allows for a more fluid progression of adventuring. Much nicer.

WotC trying to banish canon so the MMO ADHD crowd that they seek to buy product won't have to actually digest history, just kill the next boss monster

I dont appreciate the comparrison of those of us who play MMOs to having ADHD. I think you know me well enough to know I can roleplay with the best of them. I agree that WOTC is dumbing the game down to be more mainstream and also to get people to play the online version of the game. It will be like NWN but be "official" from WoTC.

I like the idea folks can get into the game easier now without having to spend 3 days rolling up a character, but think your right that folks need to have a good understanding of the backstory, history, etc of their character. I think it really just depends on whos your GM is. Ive played in some local table top games that just made me laugh my ass off after playing here in ALFA because thats exactly what they wanted to do with 3.5...kill kill kill without much roleplay. I brought this up to the GM and was basically told that the group wanted more action rather than character development. I quit playing that week. I want some meat with my potatoes.

Danubus wrote:I think it really just depends on whos your GM is. Ive played in some local table top games that just made me laugh my ass off after playing here in ALFA because thats exactly what they wanted to do with 3.5...kill kill kill without much roleplay. I brought this up to the GM and was basically told that the group wanted more action rather than character development. I quit playing that week. I want some meat with my potatoes.

I think you'll find that is the mind set of the vast majority of D&D player, online or tabletop. I played in about half a dozen groups and only one of those groups had any real focus on role-play (with a healthy dose of roll-play).

Danubus wrote:Supposedly Lathander is no more. Hes been transformed or has been reborn into a new deity called Amaunator.

Haha no shit? I was just reading the list of ancient gods the other day, thinking the part about "some scholars believe Lathander is an incarnation of Amaunator" was amusing.

Guess they were right!

I guess I share some of the frustration mentioned by coach in the "+100 years, and EVERYTHING IS CHANGED" business.

It may be a smart business move, trying to reset / level the playing field so that old hands (who they are SURE will buy 4e product, know your addicts) and new will sort of start with the same knowledge, no real learning curve on day one.

No debates over "oh, Khelben struck a treaty with NPC organization X you ignorant DM, this plot is stupid", or any other canon tidbits to worry about. I.e., completely clean slate, with I guess just short descriptions on certain regions and what the hell has happened to them in the last 100 years, whether they were your favourite spot prior, or not. Basically, forget everything you thought you ever knew, because it's now useless knowledge. Baldur's Gate is the biggest city, Netheril calls shots in a large region, certain nations are half wiped out, favourite NPCs are doddering or dead, bla bla bla. Roll up and play your... striker or defender or whatever, don't worry too much about a bio because even the DM doesn't know how well even large cities adventurers might've reasonably hailed from did over the last 100 years. Oops you put down a god who died to uh... *reads brief history* mysterious causes, please fill in another!

Anyhow, yeah, sort of a clean slate I guess to start everyone out with something fresh-ish, at least that's my impression. Well, other than the "sell all new books, the old ones are obsolete" that comes with each edition, nothing new there, just this time seems a little more radical.

ive been reading the books and messing around with concepts in the system. and i have to say that mechanically - it is the most superior multi-die system i have seen yet.

It is beautiful, feels simple, streamlined, and feels more interactive.

The Vancian magic system is more or less gone.

It will not be missed.