Do warlocks fit into the Forgotten Realms?

Ronan · Post by **Ronan** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 2:52 pm

In your opinion, do they?

As a side note, Warlocks are not a "core" 3.5 class like a sorcerer, since they appear in Complete Arcane and not the Player's Handbook. So their inclusion into D&D rules will most likely not be "forced" into existing campaign settings like was done with sorcerers in FR.

Lord Kilburn · Post by **Lord Kilburn** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 2:58 pm

It's not so much the retconning of "Oh, warlocks were always there" for me, it's more of they're really not fleshed out. Sorceror hints at draconic lineage and natural aptitude for magic, Warlock is reliant on possible demonic/infernal heritage, and here's the part I take issue with, or possibly a pact with a demon or devil that the character or player had. It's interesting, but there doesn't seem to be any obligation to said patron.

Also, they're lacking at this point in time their place in FR. How does the everyday man on the street react to a warlock? I know it would vary from place to place, but would they be viewed with fear like a necromancer, or would they be accepted?

Too many questions unanswered, and while the possiblity for some good RP is there, my vote is no.

Burt · Post by **Burt** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:45 pm

I like the extra variety.

Mikayla · Post by **Mikayla** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:52 pm

Indeed, more variety is better. I don't see warlocks being any more/less fleshed out than sorcerors, and no more disruptive to the game world than when sorcerors were added. Also, we have them in NWN2, which is set in Faerun, so, why throw them out? We have had long discussions about balance, and they do not seem to present any balance issues at this point, so why would we restrict the variety of classes available to our players in such a fashion? That does not make sense to me.

Nyarlathotep · Post by **Nyarlathotep** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:57 pm

The common man on the street isn't going to be able to tell the difference, unless someone has a good amount of points in either lore or spellcraft they aren't going to be able to tell the difference betwee the spells of a warlock or any other spellcasting class. For your average filthy peasant the spells of a sorcerer, warlock, bard, wizard, blackguard, or what have you will seem essentially the same. If a pious wizard calls out loud to a god before casting a fireball its entirely likley some folks will think him a cleric, you need an understanding of magic to be able to discern its source I should think.

They were included in the PHB 2 and their appearance in NWN 2 OC means that the chances are warlocks are going to show up in the Forgotten Realms sooner or late, the setting has an inordinate amount of demons and other things running around so they actually fit the setting very well. They have already been refrenced obliquley and unofficially as per the answer to Blackwill's inquiry on the Candlekeep forums http://www.alandfaraway.org/phpbbforum/ ... hp?t=33073

Mord · Post by **Mord** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:58 pm

If they arent unbalancing, who cares? The more the merrier I say.

EyeOfMyrkul · Post by **EyeOfMyrkul** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:03 pm

y not ... they should fit in any fantasy setting

Mayhem · Post by **Mayhem** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:04 pm

They were created by WOTC, have been included in the game engine, and will do no harm whatsoever to the game as far as I can see.

Why shouldn't they be allowed?

Ronan · Post by **Ronan** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:06 pm

Mikayla wrote:We have had long discussions about balance, and they do not seem to present any balance issues at this point, so why would we restrict the variety of classes available to our players in such a fashion?

There are balance issues, but they aren't on-topic here.

Warlocks are not present in the PHB2, they are in Complete Arcane. For this reason I said I thought it was unlikely they would be included in any Realms fiction any more than Wu Jens, Favored Souls, Hexblades, etc.

The issue isn't really how the common-man reacts to them, but more about how the educated one does. They have no history in the Realms, so a learned mage would have no prior basis on which to judge a warlock's powers. Nor is there anything mentioned on how one "deals" with an outsider to get these powers. If anyone can make a deal with a CG Eladrin to gain them, why doesn't everyone? Complete Mage may provide more information, but I do not have that book presently.

fade · Post by **fade** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:07 pm

They fit in just fine IMHO. Fun class with great flavor.

I can't comment on how balanced they are in NWN2, but they aren't exactly over powered in PnP. Either way though the class can be modified.

AlmightyTDawg · Post by **AlmightyTDawg** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:08 pm

Not to be cynical about it, but "fit" into the campaign is only a sourcebook (or novel) away.

In terms of unbalancing, I think the munchkinism is the only (public) thing I worry about for the class, and I'd personally consider it a failure if we see people multiclassing a level or two to get +4 dex or infinite darkness. They will take some clever DMing to handle appropriately because they change the "limited spell" dynamic of most casters. They're basically like quasi-mystical archers, whose only "consumable" metric is HP. When they start getting multi-opponent abilities say at 11th, then they'll get interesting - but that's not an immediate concern for ALFA.

Wild Wombat · Post by **Wild Wombat** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:31 pm

I created a Warlock as my first PC for the OC. As someone that doesn't like to play any class besides rogues (with some multiclassing thrown in) it took me less than no time to say "wow... one level of Warlock to get the +4 Dex is a must for every rogue." I mean, come on, what Dex based PC wouldn't benefit from that spell?

So, it pains the PGer hidden inside of me, but I agree with T-Bone. I think the class should be kept, but perhaps not allow multiclassing with it? The description in the NWN manual is that it doesn't multiclass well (a joke, as shown above). Let's just make it that it doesn't multiclass well because it isn't allowed.

Other than that, I have no problems whatsoever with the Warlock class. I have never read any of the Faerun books and I just RP a character. If I create a warlock and some other PC hates him because of his "Warlockiness" well, that is just a RP hook.

Ronan · Post by **Ronan** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:35 pm

Wild Wombat wrote:I created a Warlock as my first PC for the OC. As someone that doesn't like to play any class besides rogues (with some multiclassing thrown in) it took me less than no time to say "wow... one level of Warlock to get the +4 Dex is a must for every rogue." I mean, come on, what Dex based PC wouldn't benefit from that spell?

That is actually one of the primary reasons I dislike the class. Its so PG-multiclass-friendly, a lot of people would be tempted to multiclass into it. And if that happens, we have an unusually high number of warlock PCs, something that does not fit into canon no matter how you look at it. Disallowing multiclassing doesn't seem too great of an option either, though. Overall I'm not sure what the best approach is.

Fionn · Post by **Fionn** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:41 pm

Well the question was 'do they fit in a FR campaign', not 'Should ALFA remove them'. They don't - not fully. There's far too many unfinished questions, and they will lead to arguments. There's also the munchkin factor/flavor to them.

That said, they're in. It would be hugely unpopular to remove them. We already have issues with people taking a single level of Monk, Paladin, Ranger, etc to pick up a certain class feature. Munchkin PGrs will run the numbers and choose the best bang/buck. Addition of Warlock isn't going to change this.

Ronan · Post by **Ronan** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:42 pm

Fionn wrote:We already have issues with people taking a single level of Monk, Paladin, Ranger, etc to pick up a certain class feature. Munchkin PGrs will run the numbers and choose the best bang/buck. Addition of Warlock isn't going to change this.

3.5 removed this from the core classes, but Warlock threw it back in in the Complete Arcane. But again, balance issues are off-topic here. This is not a poll on whether or not Warlocks should be removed.