A Land Far Away

Poll question: Is there place in ALFA (NWN2) for a mundane crafting system?

Its easy. Pick an option.

Do you think there is a place in ALFA for mundane crafting? Do you think ALFA shouldn't have crafting because it's not D&D? Do you think crafting adds to the experience of a PW? Feel free to voice your opinion, adding pros and cons.

I'm really curious what everyone thinks.

BTW, if you if you chose the wrong poll option, feel free to buzz me.

Keep in mind that the implementation details of this are ambiguous at this point. It goes without saying that we wouldn't bother adding an exploitable crafting system, or one that highly rewarded mindless grinding, or any of that.

Its also spmewhat low on my priority list, as I prefer adventuary content first, and crafting systems aren't easy. In my mind D&D is a game of adventure before anything else, so thats where my focus is.

I haven't voted yet.

Crafting isn't for ALFA. Atleast my ALFA. It distracts from the game.

Absolutely not.

I personally dont think it adds anything, but to each their own.

I think it should be available for those who wish to pursue it, but definitely not a mandatory feature of the game.

DM assisted only.. too much scripted crafting kills roleplay

I believe it can be a flavor to the game. I agree with Ronan on the subject that it shouldn't promote mindless grinding. What I do believe however is that I would like to be able to create my own magical items from scratch without the support of a DM if i can reach all the prerequisits. That is, forge a sword, cast the appropriate spells, pay the gold cost in items either bought or found. So if i have to head to the hills with a pickaxe, i'd do it. The items i make myself will have a higher value roleplaying wise than something store bought. And it would make possible for craft classes where if I want to play a blacksmith, i should be able to. Not everyone wants to play a hero. And we're playing Forgotten Realms, not the friday night game with your friends where you are destined to save the world.

anyhow, im starting to rant.. thats my 2 cp

I'd like to say I don't care. But it seems that near every proponent of crafting wants PCs to be able to make a decent income out of crafting which is where the exploitable bits come in. I tend to be reticent because I kinda see a "foot in the door" thing going on here, but it would be easy to overstate my feelings on the matter.

I'm all for crafting without a DM present. If your so worried about a crafter making too much money (omg capitalism) then set hard cap limits they can make off their store or wares. Problem solved. At least this would give players something else to do when no dm or players are on and crafters can be incorporated into quests as players are sent to get an item or so to further their quest/brew a potion/etc.

People here in ALFA have been wanting a perfect crafting system for years, but guess what...you arent going to get it. Take a system and tweak it the best you can and get it live. As I said you can control profits.

This causes enough heartache, that I have to admit it's not low pri IMO (certainly behind adventuring content, but not low). I see two possible methods to adequatly represent crafting in virtual economy.

1. Close the economy. This means that NOTHING comes into existance out of ether. Every ounce of mineral is placed at Live, and must be guarded by the local barons. Every bearskin must be grown from a cub (and can be hunted to extinction). Darkwood groves grow only so fast and may be deforested.

2. Require token CNR recipies and set a cap on the GP/Hr that can be crafted. Modify this by the crafter's skill to be 5% to 33% of what you can get farming anything else (e.g. 5GP - 33GP an hour if 100GP/hr is our nominal max for killing mobs). This means Full Plate would require Iron Ore and 45-300 RL hours to craft.

The advantage to the first is that everyone involved gets a job offer from WoW2.

Ronan wrote:Keep in mind that the implementation details of this are ambiguous at this point. It goes without saying that we wouldn't bother adding an exploitable crafting system, or one that highly rewarded mindless grinding, or any of that.

Well, that's the real trick, isn't it? I've never seen such a crafting system, nor can I even concieve of one (especially the grinding part which seems necessary to any coded crafting system) so we'd be inventing something brand new.

Philosophically speaking, the paradigm of D&D is that you roleplay adventuring heroes who are larger than life. Sitting on a stool making shoes just doesn't seem to comport with this image. Mundane crafting just seems too mundane for adventure class PC's to be engaging in. Magical crafting, on the other hand, has always been part of the game, and can certainly be a motivator for adventures (getting that cockatrice feather isn't going to be a trip to the store) but requires constant DM monitoring and is best done without any coded systems in place, IMO.

Not too surprisingly, I voted no. I see no real benefit. Some people like to grind, so they want a crafting system. Grinding that crafting system will keep them logged in, but that logged in time will be used for solo crafting, not multiplayer rp. Ultimately, coded crafting causes some people to avoid multiplayer rp in favor of crafting activities. I'm sure we can come up with a system of crafting that doesn't allow for making PC's too wealthy, but I doubt very strongly that a crafting system can be devised that avoids grinding or soloing. The whole point of a crafting system is to "give PC's something to do when a DM isn't on" which means by definition it has to involve grinding solo, and grinding solo is not conducive to a multiplayer roleplaying environment.

keeps players online until someone else shows up

set a limited number of attempts/day for whatever they craft

tie this into a local reputation system where players earn a higher place in the community rather than handing out gold

keep available crafting locations limited in distribution to create centres of player density

tie some crafting components into LoNo scripted quests, again striving to create mini-adventures without requiring constant DM supervision

don't like it, don't use it

Player characters are adventurers, they are not bakers, butchers, shoesalesmen, weavers, chefs or anything similar by trade. It's why you dont see the whole village run out to raid that orc stronghold. Also, mundane craftsmen are also very poor, whereas a successful adventurer is by comparison relatively rich.

Ronan wrote:Keep in mind that the implementation details of this are ambiguous at this point. It goes without saying that we wouldn't bother adding an exploitable crafting system, or one that highly rewarded mindless grinding, or any of that.

Virtually any system can be exploited; that said, I'm in favor of a system of control (can't sell to merchants your finished products for instance, only other players; or even an addition to the wealth index to segregate crafted wealth vs. regular wealth).