Tieflings

[Souvarine]

Psycholeo: Absolutely, i forgot to add the precision. Thanks!

[Magonushi]

Veilan since I am the center of the universe then I can only assume your post about zeal referred to my earlier stoic remarks.

And yes, this entire argument is about isolating individuals, breeding animosity in the community, and attempting to undo a decision admin made that everyone originally agreed with. After all in a semi-democratic system of rulemaking decent about decisions is a natural repercussion of said decisions. However since this thread spawned from the idea of not simply accepting the aforementioned decision about planetouched PCs, it is therefore undemocractic, morally questionable, and furthermore has not gotten us any closer to banning gnomes.

I consider this thread a gross mockery of all ALFA stands for and would call to have all such threads, those questioning admin decisions, to henceforth be locked for their collectively subversive nature. If possible we should also employ Pre-Cogs to prevent these threads from ever starting. I think everyone in ALFA can agree, that once admin makes a decision it should never be called into question.

[Souvarine]

I think if players modeled their 'good' drow behavior off of every canon 'good' drow that WASN'T Drizzt, there'd be less of a stink about people playing 'good' drow.

Eillistraeens aren't really all that nice.

I agree, and honestly i have yet to meet a drizznit kind of drow in alfa. I'd bet that most drow players in alfa work hard to avoid the dreaded tag.

That's one thing planetouched characters don't have to deal with

[Joos]

Veilan since I am the center of the universe then I can only assume your post about zeal referred to my earlier stoic remarks.

And yes, this entire argument is about isolating individuals, breeding animosity in the community, and attempting to undo a decision admin made that everyone originally agreed with. After all in a semi-democratic system of rulemaking decent about decisions is a natural repercussion of said decisions. However since this thread spawned from the idea of not simply accepting the aforementioned decision about planetouched PCs, it is therefore undemocractic, morally questionable, and furthermore has not gotten us any closer to banning gnomes.

I consider this thread a gross mockery of all ALFA stands for and would call to have all such threads, those questioning admin decisions, to henceforth be locked for their collectively subversive nature. If possible we should also employ Pre-Cogs to prevent these threads from ever starting. I think everyone in ALFA can agree, that once admin makes a decision it should never be called into question.

Thats it. My next PC, and all hence forth, will be Gnomes.

[Magonushi]

Thats it. My next PC, and all hence forth, will be Gnomes.

PGing Hooligan! I rest easy knowing that ALFA will be forced to adopt 4ed rules some day, and bring you and your kind to final justice. Mark my words, Joos.

Mark them!

[JaydeMoon]

/me marks Mags words with a single thick black line through all of them.

[Rotku]

Gnome!

[HATEFACE]

and a npc will most likely react in the same way if she sees a noble or an aasimar, or a beggar and a tiefling.

No she wouldn't. Seeing a handsome human with horns smouldering eyes and the faint smell of brimestone and ash is way more unnerving to your common pig farmer than seeing a human with grime on his forehead and the annoying "could je spare a copper 'er two goodwoman?"

Poverty is a common sight for any medieval city dweller but we can try it in a modern sense.

Let's play some roles. Let's say you wander into an alley. You see a hobo pushing a shopping cart muttering to himself and a man in a buisness suit, fangs, a shroud of darkness, glowing red eyes and a tail swishing about. Now, I would run away from both but let's face it, you're going to go "WTF!!!" when you see the buisness man grinning at you sadistically. Point being you're going to react stronger to one than the other.

I remember reading but can't remember what book it was in. There was a d100 table that listed tiefling physical descriptions. Dark shrouds, feeling of menace, horns, hooves, tails, and various other shit.

[Zelknolf]

No she wouldn't. Seeing a handsome human with horns smouldering eyes and the faint smell of brimestone and ash is way more unnerving to your common pig farmer than seeing a human with grime on his forehead and the annoying "could je spare a copper 'er two goodwoman?"

Poverty is a common sight for any medieval city dweller but we can try it in a modern sense.

+1 to all but the "handsome" part.

Tieflings take a CHA penalty, and we play on point buy.

[psycho_leo]

From the SRD.

Many tieflings are indistinguishable from humans. Others have small horns, pointed teeth, red eyes, a whiff of brimstone about them, or even cloven feet. No two tieflings are the same.

Comparing tieflings with hobos is likely a poor comparison in many cases, but it's valid for some. The fact is, not all tieflings will have horns, red eyes, a pointy tail and goat legs. The ones that show more and stronger traits of their lineage will probably be chased off most cities and villages with torches and pitchforks. The others wont.

I had a pdf here listing all the possible traits. Seems to be gone.. oh well.

[Mulu]

And lets face it, any comparison to our world is futile anyway. D&D is a high fantasy game, and FR is about the highest fantasy gameworld of D&D. Yes, IRL I would be pretty freaked out by a tiefling, much more so by a half-orc. But we don't play an Earth-based campaign. Gods and monsters walk Toril, all the time, all over the place. Play in a different campaign world if you don't want drow and tieflings and all the rest, because in Faerun they exist and even thrive. The canon of FR is that these races co-exist on the surface with humans. Doesn't mean they are welcome in every redneck village, but they do exist. In some locations they may not even warrant a second look. Banning them breaks canon, simple as that.

[Souvarine]

and a npc will most likely react in the same way if she sees a noble or an aasimar, or a beggar and a tiefling.

No she wouldn't. Seeing a handsome human with horns smouldering eyes and the faint smell of brimestone and ash is way more unnerving to your common pig farmer than seeing a human with grime on his forehead and the annoying "could je spare a copper 'er two goodwoman?"

Poverty is a common sight for any medieval city dweller but we can try it in a modern sense.

Let's play some roles. Let's say you wander into an alley. You see a hobo pushing a shopping cart muttering to himself and a man in a buisness suit, fangs, a shroud of darkness, glowing red eyes and a tail swishing about. Now, I would run away from both but let's face it, you're going to go "WTF!!!" when you see the buisness man grinning at you sadistically. Point being you're going to react stronger to one than the other.

I remember reading but can't remember what book it was in. There was a d100 table that listed tiefling physical descriptions. Dark shrouds, feeling of menace, horns, hooves, tails, and various other sh*t.

What i meant by the hobo reference is that a tiefling that wants or needs to pass for one, probably can. That doesn't mean she'll ask for money, she might steal it though! And since they can't really pass for a handsome or any charismatic person due to their aura, well a lowlife is a rather good bet to cross from a street to another.

Fact is, you generally don't want to look into a beggars mouth to see that his teeth are pointy ot just broken (in fact, most people are scared of beggars with a complete set of rotten black teeth, i know i was the first time!).

You don't want to see the lice that prosper under that stained hat, and you will most likely consider a reddish tone of his skin as sunburns, desease due to poor hygene or even alchool. You won't want to check under his rags if his whole body is red.

Normal people are not interested in the homeless's anatomy, they want to ignore them and usually do.

Now that doesn't mean there won't be people wanting to get rid of him, treating him harshly...beating him up and whatever, but...who said a tiefling's life was easy? He'll try to find people who can tolerate him, i'd bet on the "outlaw" side of the officer's badge.

But that's just 1 solution for the most dire circumstances. A wizard could have bought the child from a secret cult, keeping him locked in his tower, or using him to accomplish some tasks...or simply studying the blood.

Hell an aasimar could even be revered as a "sacred child" from birth. In some circumstances, twisted/evil people could accept a tiefling out of fear... if they believe that the tiefling has blood of the fiend they so revere. They won't like or trust him, but accept it as a symbol of their faith nonetheless.

[HATEFACE]

And lets face it, any comparison to our world is futile anyway.

I wouldn't be too certain of that fact.

[HATEFACE]

and a npc will most likely react in the same way if she sees a noble or an aasimar, or a beggar and a tiefling.

No she wouldn't. Seeing a handsome human with horns smouldering eyes and the faint smell of brimestone and ash is way more unnerving to your common pig farmer than seeing a human with grime on his forehead and the annoying "could je spare a copper 'er two goodwoman?"

Poverty is a common sight for any medieval city dweller but we can try it in a modern sense.

Let's play some roles. Let's say you wander into an alley. You see a hobo pushing a shopping cart muttering to himself and a man in a buisness suit, fangs, a shroud of darkness, glowing red eyes and a tail swishing about. Now, I would run away from both but let's face it, you're going to go "WTF!!!" when you see the buisness man grinning at you sadistically. Point being you're going to react stronger to one than the other.

I remember reading but can't remember what book it was in. There was a d100 table that listed tiefling physical descriptions. Dark shrouds, feeling of menace, horns, hooves, tails, and various other sh*t.

What i meant by the hobo reference is that a tiefling that wants or needs to pass for one, probably can. That doesn't mean she'll ask for money, she might steal it though! And since they can't really pass for a handsome or any charismatic person due to their aura, well a lowlife is a rather good bet to cross from a street to another.

Fact is, you generally don't want to look into a beggars mouth to see that his teeth are pointy ot just broken (in fact, most people are scared of beggars with a complete set of rotten black teeth, i know i was the first time!).

You don't want to see the lice that prosper under that stained hat, and you will most likely consider a reddish tone of his skin as sunburns, desease due to poor hygene or even alchool. You won't want to check under his rags if his whole body is red.

Normal people are not interested in the homeless's anatomy, they want to ignore them and usually do.

Now that doesn't mean there won't be people wanting to get rid of him, treating him harshly...beating him up and whatever, but...who said a tiefling's life was easy? He'll try to find people who can tolerate him, i'd bet on the "outlaw" side of the officer's badge.

But that's just 1 solution for the most dire circumstances. A wizard could have bought the child from a secret cult, keeping him locked in his tower, or using him to accomplish some tasks...or simply studying the blood.

Hell an aasimar could even be revered as a "sacred child" from birth. In some circumstances, twisted/evil people could accept a tiefling out of fear... if they believe that the tiefling has blood of the fiend they so revere. They won't like or trust him, but accept it as a symbol of their faith nonetheless.

There needs to be a realistic balance between tolerance and hate and the different nuanced levels thereof, yuh?

[HATEFACE]

No she wouldn't. Seeing a handsome human with horns smouldering eyes and the faint smell of brimestone and ash is way more unnerving to your common pig farmer than seeing a human with grime on his forehead and the annoying "could je spare a copper 'er two goodwoman?"

Poverty is a common sight for any medieval city dweller but we can try it in a modern sense.

+1 to all but the "handsome" part.

Tieflings take a CHA penalty, and we play on point buy.

-1 for relating CHA to physical attractiveness. People have subjective views on what that is. Also, you can be handsome and be a total dickweed. Trust me. I've seen it, it's pretty common.