Probably get locked, but oh well

[Heero]

I will hogtie them until they do.

[Heero]

Really this all boils down to a differing opinion of what ALFA should be. Half the people want to have an adventure, the other half want to live a virtual life ala 'The Sims'. Weve been thru this time and again. Its just, generally the people playing 'The Sims: FR Edition' get to a certain level via our various routes of riskless advancement then start complaining they have been forgotten about as there is nothing for them to do, while the people wanting to have adventure try to, die, then either leave or complain there isnt enough fun to be had.

Its no possible to please everyone, but ALFA does a good job of pleasing both groups to the point many will stick around hoping their bellyaching will get them somewhere closer to their goals.

[Blindhamsterman]

the stuff about high levels unbalancing things is really variable, there's a difference between a 'power build' high level, and most other PCs. Some require the challenge is hugely upped just to ensure it even is a challenge for the group with such a PC. Other High levels fit in extremely well with significantly lower levels. I was having a chat with another player about this very subject not long ago and it's interesting that for the most part DMs that have played with him don't even tend to consider upping the challenge if he tags along with lower levels.

As far as DMs not providing challenge for high levels, again that's kind of debatable, as I've been involved in two reasonable length (well one very long and one reasonable length) campaigns that involved PCs ranging from about 4th to 10th in one and 4th to 12th in the other. In both campaigns, the low levels pulled their weight despite the higher challenge due to higher levels, but the ones that tended to get battered about the most were the higher levels. In my case for example. Elenaril has been beaten bloody countless times and recently even only survived thanks to sheer luck on the bleeding out (stabilizing and healing by himself).

As far as what levels are most fun, it really depends on the kind of character class. For skill based PCs, I'd guess at the 6-8 mark being accurate. For Spellcasters I'd guess at a little higher, for pure melee builds I'd guess at the most enjoyment being a little lower and I'd guess most multi role characters are not fun till significantly higher.

Sure there are times where a single PC will unbalance things, but thats just an opportunity to push toward other kinds of challenges, not everything has to be combat, and in other situations I'll again point out that lower or mid levels can outshine the higher ones, and higher ones are just as capable of cocking things up as the lowerlevels!

as far as Bios go... I always assumed people wrote Bios with a level 1 in mind, Sure they may have goals for the future already evident, but deeds and abilities are generally those of a novice (from my experience anyway)

[oldgrayrogue]

Heh, my bios are mostly about my PCs parents, family and early life. =D

Anyway, a few high level PCs are not an issue. But when you have mostly high level PCs running around it can be a problem. New players log on with a level 1 and either feel totally irrelevent and useless and leave, or join the arms race to become an uber high level too. Again, to me it is not about forcing retirement and level caps, it is about trying to foster an attitude and an environment that makes character turnover just as fun and desirable as playing that same concept forever. Such a global attitude is healthy for the entire project IMO.

And by the way, we already have a level cap at 20 in ALFA.

[Stormbring3r]

OGR has a point. When I came back to ALFA just last month. Logged into TSM as a 1 level toon Did a few statics while RP'ing. Another player whom I knew from ALFA1 Showed me around Silverymoon some. Then I got involved on a DM quest Most PC's I think were 2nd and 3rd level though not positive on that. Was I a hinderance? I don't think so. Was I helpful. I think so.

But you throw a level 1 in with level 9 Players and he will die unless a DM nerf's encounter's. And all that accomplishes if free xp for all. A DM should make it challanging for the PC's. Are we a hardcore server or do we just claim to be when it suits the DM's needs?

I noticed that someone posted that there was several higher level quest going on somewhere else. Not sure if the same PC's are doing both quest but as a Player if I have toon and was already on one quest I stick with it till finished. Those that DM farm for quest by taking multiple quest imho are as guilty of farming for xp as Joe Bob the N0o8 trying to hit level 2 by running statics.

[Blindhamsterman]

just in case the reference of two higher level DM quests was in relation to my post - I should note that one of them was about 5 months ago (that it finished - it started a year or so earlier!) the other has been going around a month.

[Heero]

Everyone wants different things. ha ha

[danielmn]

I think we can all agree that everyone wants bacon, Heero.

[Blindhamsterman]

bacon makes EVERYTHING better.

[Stormbring3r]

bacon makes EVERYTHING better.

I want bacon as well.

I was not condonning doing multiple DM quest. Just asking to not do them at the same time.

[FoamBats4All]

Finally the thread turns towards bacon.

[danielmn]

bacon makes EVERYTHING better.

I want bacon as well.

I was not condonning doing multiple DM quest. Just asking to not do them at the same time.

Meh we have plenty enough people that hop between servers doing multiple quests. I couldn't care less at this point about it. People are going to do what they want reguardless if IC stuff, so I just shrug and say more power to them.

[Blindhamsterman]

bacon makes EVERYTHING better.

I want bacon as well.

I was not condonning doing multiple DM quest. Just asking to not do them at the same time.

Meh we have plenty enough people that hop between servers doing multiple quests. I couldn't care less at this point about it. People are going to do what they want reguardless if IC stuff, so I just shrug and say more power to them.

*waves his 'i stay on a server for months at a time before leaving' flag*

[I-KP]

...it is about trying to foster an attitude and an environment that makes character turnover just as fun and desirable as playing that same concept forever. Such a global attitude is healthy for the entire project IMO.

As far as I am aware there is almost no turnover of high level PCs in ALFA these days, more than likely due to reasons that I've already alluded to; it's all but the duty of the very low level players keeping that 'global' attitude alive and kicking.

[Blindhamsterman]

...it is about trying to foster an attitude and an environment that makes character turnover just as fun and desirable as playing that same concept forever. Such a global attitude is healthy for the entire project IMO.

As far as I am aware there is almost no turnover of high level PCs in ALFA these days, more than likely due to reasons that I've already alluded to; it's all but the duty of the very low level players keeping that 'global' attitude alive and kicking.

End of last year saw a fair few high levels die. I can testify to DMs not going easy on high levels - at least in the DM events I've been in, generally survival has been by a hairs breadth and been down to either good planning or a good amount of luck. That only covers the DMing I received from Viigas for a long while and then the DMing from Ronan (whom has a bit of a rep for not going easy afterall). No idea if other DMs make it easy or not.

(also note that level has nothing to do with it, if you talk PC turnover it should be lifespan, in which case Tam surely should be at about expiry date too in terms of age? The original characters of ALFA2 are down to near none now though, I think Sylvaine is the last in fact - Other old PCs are Drake, Laniara and Sywyn as well as Marcus Wands, doubt any are older than those four other than Sylvaine, theres then quite a jump before next oldest PCs which likely includes Tam now, as well as Elenaril and then Rani and Persephone and probably another jump all the way to Hulurin. Of those, the highest level is the least old PC, the others I assume range from 7th i assume to 12th i believe) there are a few others that probably fall into the 'high' levels that remain, which are much newer I guess too.

Theres other old PCs that are not dead, but their players have not been about lately so I've not mentioned them. Regardless, turnover has nothing to do with level, it's all about age.