Tieflings

[JaydeMoon]

Since this is a tiefling thread I can call you a powergamer here?

I'm just giving you a hard time. Choosing/wanting a tiefling doesn't in and of itself, carry a powergaming aspect with it.

But continuing to make noise can be tiresome for some. Still, squeaky wheel and all... like someone said somewhere, as long as the answer is no, we'll keep coming back to it, but once it becomes yes, the matter will be settled.

[HATEFACE]

I like exodus's system of character races. They allow all of them but they have an ingenious way of restricting the play of them not only through an app but also through a societal roleplaying aspect through the use of merchant families. Maybe one of these days I'll stop playing humans and apply for a tiefer but that's unlikely. I like playing humans. I can relate. I am one (I think.)

[JaydeMoon]

I like playing humans. I can relate. I am one (I think.)

They have you TOTALLY fooled. Fool.

[Souvarine]

Helios: Exodus? Well that is new and interesting, again you have my thanks.

Humans are certainly easier to relate to, but every other race is simply another aspect of the human mind which can be explored, besides, it's humans who created them in the first place. Think of it as other parts of the light prism: humans are the visible spectrum, what we know, other races simply go further up or down the wavelenght variable. Most races are exagerations of the human at its most extreme expression. That is how i can relate to drow, half orcs or tieflings and other non human stuff (in my case it's the whole menagerie).

No human player is ever going to be able to think like an elf, but we can "play" as if we did. It's really only about storytelling, if you make others "believe" in what you play, then you are what you pretend to be.

Explore the wild.

[Mayhem]

On the plus side, when you choose to play a human character, no human-elitist starts telling you you are playing it wrong because you don't conform to their sterotypical view of a human.

[Zelknolf]

On the plus side, when you choose to play a human character, no human-elitist starts telling you you are playing it wrong because you don't conform to their sterotypical view of a human.

Sure they do, but they don't say "You're playing humans wrong." They say "You're a bad role player."

[Souvarine]

If someone inside alfa say you are a bad roleplayer, then you've just ran out of luck because my bet is that they are extremely few. Just avoid him, odds are you'll never meet another in your whole life.

That's what i meant by "making others believe", there are some harder concepts, more challenging ones i could say. Here is an example that will obviously strike your mind: Good Drows. They have the whole drizznitchstzsd crap to shrug off their skin every encounter they have. Most of you probably had their stereotype fired up and clanking as soon as they read the two words together. Imho elves, in general (including evil drows), are harder to make others believe...there is a LOT of litterature about elves, so most roleplayer already read alot about them and has a precise idea on how to play them.

As for the planetouched, well they don't have much in common with each other and are typically encountered as individuals (not societies/armies/raiding parties), so it's easier to get going with your concept or the next; stereotypes don't glue too much unless you decide to play one or a ridiculous/comical concept, exactly as with humans. The real issue with them is to explain how they came to be there. In a way, that too, can be rather easy, because some humans have summoned fiends and celestials on the surface: you need places where that sort of magic may have happened in the past (huge cities, mage covens...ports were there is slave trade, etc.). Then the rest is up to you.

But unlike a human, you can't bang in a "racial minority" pc into a random server and expect all to go well (example: a drow in bereghost...yeah i did it my bad), you need to find a dm who likes your concept and, most preferably, one who appreciates your roleplay. I sure as hell talk alot with my dms before i even roll up my characters. The same is true for server travel! .

[Zelknolf]

Well, technically, you want to call an outsider if you're keen on breeding. You'd have troubles concieving with a summoned one.

Still, mid level cleric can do it... and then do what he/she calls... and given that every temple in ALFA (except the one on the OAS) has a mid level cleric in it, I call that reasonable!

[JaydeMoon]

I think if players modeled their 'good' drow behavior off of every canon 'good' drow that WASN'T Drizzt, there'd be less of a stink about people playing 'good' drow.

Eillistraeens aren't really all that nice.

[Magonushi]

I can't believe this thread still has more posts piling up on it. It's disgusting!

As an act of protest, I will now make my post.

It surprises me that you, Souvarine, are able to keep a straight face while arguing for the inclusion of tieflings in ALPHA. We are the paramount RPing community in the world, and as such if we give ourselves too much liberty it will inevitably ruin the precious balance between the Danbusians and the Muluites. You must know by now that no DM can willingly ignore a player they do not care for. Nor has ALPHA ever suffered an imbalance in racial population differing from that of canon lore. These factors combined must lead you to realize that if we allowed tieflings, everyone but GF would play as one (after all GF is a cylon at heart.) Surely, you must realize that for the greater good we cannot allow you to use a mechanic included in the game and validated by WotC lore to further enjoy your experience in ALPHA. It would not be fair for all the other people, who want to further enjoy their experiences in ALPHA. Perhaps once you become less selfish you can learn to drop your pointless sense of individuality and make a human fighter like the rest of us.

Now, once we're done banning the teiflings could we move on to the gnomes and bards?

[JaydeMoon]

You toally spelled "Danubusians" wrong.

Your whole arguemnt is now invlid.

[Veilan]

I think the passionate, fanatic zeal with which proponents continue to snidely attack a decision by the suppliers and providers of this community, who have carefully weighed the fallout for them (ignoring a tiefling won't do - then you have all other troubles arising), explains a lot of the resentment.

I'm still not heavily biased either way... I had fun with my air genasi al-qadim bard-corsair, but the seething passions here ring all sorts of alarm bells of creating just another isolationist, hostile clique with little to no gain or conduciveness to the overall campaign.

All the angry, red-faced discussion and terrier-behaviour will just further alienate people.

The most simple, convincing and constructive way of making your case would be to apply to DM and create a storyline involving non-glaring "other races" in a subtle, atmospherical and entertaining fashion for those who who are skeptical.

[Souvarine]

Well, technically, you want to call an outsider if you're keen on breeding. You'd have troubles concieving with a summoned one.

Still, mid level cleric can do it... and then do what he/she calls... and given that every temple in ALFA (except the one on the OAS) has a mid level cleric in it, I call that reasonable!

Even more, the cleric or magician who did that magic will be long gone, technically, since the planetouched characters are only decendants of the lineage, they are not half-breeds at all (many people confuse them for such, like half orcs or half elves...or half...lings?), but they inherited a curse/boon from their ancestors.

This means that you can have a few planetouched characters, with varying degrees of "touch" for the same act of breeding. Your pc don't even need to know why when or how it happened, actually, i think most of them wouldn't. Besides, the taint may only resurface once each twice generations...only on men or women of that family, only on those with magical powers, etc. That is up to you and your dm to set up.

What you need is a place where the summoning could have had happened: say...a village rebuilt on a city wiped out by demons. A huge city with many temples (evil or good) or wizard sects. Then you have to determine the social treatment inflicted on your character (aasimar typically on the high side, while tieflings fall pretty low) and make sure you follow the course you set.

Hell, you could even say that in some case the tiefling or aasimar is the result of a real forbidden love tradgedy in the past. A young priestess or wizard could, if the fiend or celestial be attractive enough, fall in love with it after repeated summoning (or fall under its spell in some cases)...and the lineage left behind is the shattered result of a forgotten romance.

What i am trying to say here is that, unlike direct half-breeds, planetouched don't require any contact with both their parent speicies, nor the knowledge of how they came to be (and likely, that question will torture them for a long time). So knowing that, it makes it far less problematic to find a plausible environment. In fact, since they try to blend in the society they're affiliated with (humans, in nwn's case), as i stated before, there is no extra work on builders part. No builder is going to make specific check for each and every race...and a npc will most likely react in the same way if she sees a noble or an aasimar, or a beggar and a tiefling.

Veilan: I am not hostile, nor isolationist, in fact i want everyone to realize that there is no appocalypse coming.

As for red faced anger, you won't get much from me (well, my avatar is smiling ), i trust this community to one day change and realize that options given to players are just like options put in your new car, one day they'll be standard no matter what. That's what we call evolution and...it's a healthy process.

Not only that, but i know that those who don't want planetouched in are simply expressing a natural resistance to change and that is normal for every community. The larger, the more resistance to change you get. When you bring in something new, there is inevitably and naturally fear around (and that is healthy, too).

Me, a dm? really...i thought about that a long time ago and i agree with you, it'd be great for me, but i like to entertain my dms too much and i like player to player interaction's intensity. In fact i am pretty darn certain that i'd convince quite a few just by being allowed to play one of those planetouched in front of them. Hey I said i wasn't angry...doesn't mean i'll be modest all of a sudden

[psycho_leo]

and a npc will most likely react in the same way if she sees a noble or an aasimar, or a beggar and a tiefling.

That depends on the the PC in question. Some tieflings can pass as a human just fine, some will have horns or red devul eyes and mingling will be harder. I don't care either way anymore, but the fact all tiefling head models in NWN2 have horns doesn't or at least shouldn't mean diddly squat. Descriptions (and a helm/hat) take care of that and maybe we'll see new head models down the road.

[HEEGZ]

I have no idea when an official decision will be made, but if in the end they aren't permitted then I really like this alternative:

The most simple, convincing and constructive way of making your case would be to apply to DM and create a storyline involving non-glaring "other races" in a subtle, atmospherical and entertaining fashion for those who who are skeptical.