How to bring back the people?

[SwordSaintMusashi]

There is also no point to this thread if none of the ideas are being understood, as it seems is the case with what I'm saying.

Then plainly state your point, and stop dashing around the bush: I want to know what it is you've been rambling on about for 4 or 5 posts now as well.

[Adanu]

Right... true enough. My mistake. Regardless, the tone of your posts isn't helping, Rotku.

There is also no point to this thread if none of the ideas are being understood, as it seems is the case with what I'm saying.

Then plainly state your point, and stop dashing around the bush: I want to know what it is you've been rambling on about for 4 or 5 posts now as well.

Which point are you having trouble with, and I will try to explain.

[I-KP]

- More jam; less toast. If we can’t find more jam then we get rid of the surplus toast. ALFA’s current activity is barely enough to moderately populate two servers; I suggest keeping TSM & BG and combine key areas from all other servers into one ‘campaign location’ server that is only accessible by means of DM’d adventures.

I know I've said this before, but I'll try again: the jam-toast analogy does not work here, because jam does not get up and walk. People do. If we allow multiple PCs per player, the jam can even teleport around at will. Players per server or players per area is not a useful metric for social density, because empty servers or empty areas have no effect on social density.

We've had this conversation before, but I'll try again: The jam-toast analogy is a perfectly valid one and it does work here; it fairly accurately describes the situation ALFA now finds itself in. When a person gets up and walks away ALFA loses exactly that amount of jam. The solution of allowing one-PC-per-server might help paper over the cracks a wee bit but you must also accept that not every player here likes to have more than one character on the burn at any one time, much less half a dozen as the situation may well develop into. Only if nearly every player takes on a PC for every online server will your teleporting jam make any significant difference, and that's highly unlikely to happen thank goodness. (I don't like having more than one PC active at any given time; I didn't play in more than one PW at any given time as a direct result. I feel like I have a finite quantity of good RP in me and if I were to have multiple characters, four characters if your solution where to be maximally effective given current server standings, each would only be broadly 25% as good as it would have been alone. This is not creating more jam, or even the illusions of such; it's just spreading what I had before ever thinner.) Anything substantially short of maximum take-up of the one-PC-per-server option will not be as effective at drawing all of the nomadic, often isolated little groups of players into something approaching a communal locality as consolidating the game into two main server hubs would do.

[SwordSaintMusashi]

Right... true enough. My mistake. Regardless, the tone of your posts isn't helping, Rotku.

There is also no point to this thread if none of the ideas are being understood, as it seems is the case with what I'm saying.

Then plainly state your point, and stop dashing around the bush: I want to know what it is you've been rambling on about for 4 or 5 posts now as well.

Which point are you having trouble with, and I will try to explain.

All of your points, quite frankly. Any time someone disagrees with you, you spit out that they're missing the point.

So what is your point, outside of using vague terms like "old boys club" and misunderstanding what power each admin position has?

[Adanu]

Right... true enough. My mistake. Regardless, the tone of your posts isn't helping, Rotku.

There is also no point to this thread if none of the ideas are being understood, as it seems is the case with what I'm saying.

Then plainly state your point, and stop dashing around the bush: I want to know what it is you've been rambling on about for 4 or 5 posts now as well.

Which point are you having trouble with, and I will try to explain.

All of your points, quite frankly. Any time someone disagrees with you, you spit out that they're missing the point.

So what is your point, outside of using vague terms like "old boys club" and misunderstanding what power each admin position has?

That isn't helping. Give me a specific idea first so I know how you interpreted what I said, and I will try to help you understand.

[SwordSaintMusashi]

That is my problem, Adanu: I don't know what your ideas are. You're ranting on for pages about your idea of a solution to "How to bring back the people" (or at least I think that is the point, per the thread title), but all you're doing is saying people don't understand what you're saying.

So then lay it out, in plain, simple terms without using nick names for groups in ALFA or seemingly witty sayings or quotes.

What changes do YOU think will bring people back to ALFA?

[Adanu]

I think having two PCs, a bit of layoff of standards in regards to loot so that DMs can have breathing room with rewards, and that being less hardcore about farming and leveling will help boht DMs and players. People have this to have fun, not to have every single aspect of their life dictated by others. Yes, have rules and guidelines... but right now, we're so far beyond that in 'game B' that perfectly fair proposals are rejected. Again, the transfer of Amn PCs springs to mind. Options are a great start.

To be completely honest though, what I think isn't really what matters. What matters is we move forward and make this game fun for everyone, not just me and the one or two players I like here. Either we adapt, or people will just keep leaving while we bicker over trivial crap.

Here's the thing though; Regardless of what we discuss, or possibly change... we can always revert it back if it doesn't work. What matters most is the will to try and fail, not being afraid of the potential abuse. Anything can be abused if you look hard enough. We are a community... but we keep seeming to forget that.

I-KP and Bogart both raise valid points. So does Ronan. That being said, hard numbers do not represent the whole situation. A lot of techies seem to forget this though. I say we keep going and checking in with former players and seeing if there is a correlation or not in views and complaints. It certainly beats bickering on the forums.

I'll be DMing on the OAS when it comes up, so that'll help. I'll probably app for WHL once I've had an explore with Zyrus there.

[SwordSaintMusashi]

I think having two PCs, a bit of layoff of standards in regards to loot so that DMs can have breathing room with rewards, and that being less hardcore about farming and leveling will help boht DMs and players. People have this to have fun, not to have every single aspect of their life dictated by others. Yes, have rules and guidelines...

All good points: Now ask yourself, why did it take someone asking you four times over five pages of a forum thread to say just that and nothing else?

Concise, polite, well thought out arguments are better than the arm waving and doom-saying this thread is turning into.

Proceed from those above points, and perhaps people will understand your points better and offer constructive opinions from there on out.

[Adanu]

I think having two PCs, a bit of layoff of standards in regards to loot so that DMs can have breathing room with rewards, and that being less hardcore about farming and leveling will help boht DMs and players. People have this to have fun, not to have every single aspect of their life dictated by others. Yes, have rules and guidelines...

All good points: Now ask yourself, why did it take someone asking you four times over five pages of a forum thread to say just that and nothing else?

Concise, polite, well thought out arguments are better than the arm waving and doom-saying this thread is turning into.

Proceed from those above points, and perhaps people will understand your points better and offer constructive opinions from there on out.

I'm used to people attacking me like Rotku.

I've tended to not care since I'm usually dismissed, but it seems people are actually willing to talk now. So, here I am, offering my own opinion.

[Castano]

1 PC per server
Scheduled DM/player timeslots

We don't need 5 pages.

[SwordSaintMusashi]

I think having two PCs, a bit of layoff of standards in regards to loot so that DMs can have breathing room with rewards, and that being less hardcore about farming and leveling will help boht DMs and players. People have this to have fun, not to have every single aspect of their life dictated by others. Yes, have rules and guidelines...

All good points: Now ask yourself, why did it take someone asking you four times over five pages of a forum thread to say just that and nothing else?

Concise, polite, well thought out arguments are better than the arm waving and doom-saying this thread is turning into.

Proceed from those above points, and perhaps people will understand your points better and offer constructive opinions from there on out.

I'm used to people attacking me like Rotku.

I've tended to not care since I'm usually dismissed, but it seems people are actually willing to talk now. So, here I am, offering my own opinion.

You might find yourself less inclined to be dismissed if you cut the attitude (defeatist, elitist, or otherwise) and just make your points. I know its all I wanted, I happen to agree with some of your points.

[FoamBats4All]

Help incentive people to DM and DM often.

E.g., something like:
"ALFA players are allowed one player character. For every server that they actively DM, they are allowed one additional character. Only one character per server. No playing where you DM."

[danielmn]

Fill the two PA staff heads that are now missing. The work they will do, especially after gamespy is replaced, would be invaluable to getting/keeping players. Step on up!

[Sidhe]

There is a perpetual current of 'they don't care about peoples opinions, just what they think is the spirit of ALFA" from a *LOT* of players I've met.

This. If I hear this from players as a DM in a position of "power" and part of the "system", I cant imagine how many actually think this and just discuss it amongst themselves.

As far as Admins, yes we have a new influx of blood, but I think everyone is dancing around the issue. Whatever the DMA is doing or not doing it is not working and people are voting with their feet. I am not saying a good effort has not been put in. I am pointing out that whatever perspective is currently the "vision of ALFA" it is not attractive to players or DM's and perhaps it is time for a fresh perspective (we have fresh everthing else admin).

But people vote DMA in etc etc etc? Yes and has beens who have not played in a year also get to vote, and it is evident that alot here are resistant to change, or, have their head in the sand over how things are running. The people who dont get to vote are the ones that are actually most affected by this perspective not to mention that most of these players have left or are not interested in the has been B game/forums/irc....need evidence that this perspective on ALFA isnt working? Look at the player count.

This, however, will end the same way every ALFA 'what players want' thread will; with valid points being raised by players and ignored. I am, however, quite enjoying the attacks on Adanu - shame they dont come with any ideas of their own to counter.

[danielmn]

I think having two PCs

Currently allowed, though not simultaneously, due to temp retirement. Talks are in progress (as was the intention upon setting the system up, I made call for a reveiw of the system by the next PA once we had some baseline stats) on further easy the restrictions to allow the retirement of PC's not limited to just once.

a bit of layoff of standards in regards to loot so that DMs can have breathing room with rewards

Not really sure where this is coming from, since most PC's are either low wealth or on target. If anything, at the moment we have a lack of rewards, as you've previously stated. Please explain further this statement, in reference to your previous statement about lack of awards/dms bleeding wealth through consumable item use. However, I think what you are referring to is the combination of things an item can do? For instance, requiring an item to be enchanted before any other magics can be in place? Need some more elaboration on that front, possibly some examples you've encountered IG that can be used here?...

and that being less hardcore about farming

Progress is slow but sure on that front, as previous talks of dimrets are being picked up again between the current PA and TA. Once Dimrets are established, any reference of farming should go away, as a curve scale will be used to determine xp for combat kills.

and leveling

Leveling has never been as easy as it is currently. The statics set up easily allows one to jet through lower levels without too much of a problem. PA is in current reveiw on giving xp for bio's, which is a further boost to this. In essence, the community has already eased up on leveling. Now, if we as a community still think that leveling is too slow, why not start at level 6 or 8, and make all the spawns in game well below the CR level for those levels to provide no challenge whatsoever, and to make sure all PC's survive?

I am, however, quite enjoying the attacks on Adanu - shame they dont come with any ideas of their own to counter.

Your call has been answered, sir.