cliques in ALFA

[JaydeMoon]

I have not been around for a long time... but so far there is no 'bias' against evil or good that I am seeing.

Apparently, I am not working hard enough...

[Castano]

Well said. I think Cloud forgets that her own character has been saved by this same hesitation to enter CvC on more than one occasion

For a long time ALFA has been steadliy playing favorites for the goodies. It is downright laughable that anyone would look to the rare instances when it is the goodies having to hold back and declare that something should be done about it

Saved? *laughs* Well ive been in two situations where CvC mightve worked IC. One time, she just could'nt take out a druid execution style based on her religous beliefs alone. And the other time, her family and friends were at risk, as well as her home. You don't just leap over the bar with a greatsword and cut off some person's head coup de grace in this game. And definately not in front of your mother and one-year-old son.

As per favoring goodies, not sure. I know JLM spent a good deal of time doing secret dark plots and created some memorable villains and backstories to that effect.

We've had a sucessful Banite faction, some Velsharoon (that did deserve Dm time but for their impossible time slot) and some very evil characters come and go. In the end Dm's chose characters that listen and follow their lead implicitly in regards to the situations presented.

So has yours Mr. D.

[mr duncan]

We've had a sucessful Banite faction, some Velsharoon (that did deserve Dm time but for their impossible time slot) and some very evil characters come and go. In the end Dm's chose characters that listen and follow their lead implicitly in regards to the situations presented.

So has yours Mr. D.

All in a days work I guess. I will have to console myself that at least T-Ice understood

[rorax]

We've had a sucessful Banite faction, some Velsharoon (that did deserve Dm time but for their impossible time slot) and some very evil characters come and go. In the end Dm's chose characters that listen and follow their lead implicitly in regards to the situations presented.

Well, despite the thread is on OOC cliques , i'll answer to this....


As one of the velshroonites i can honestly say that at some point, it felt like the entire playerbase in TSM is obsessed with killing us. Some players grouped together and literally patrolled the server in circles to try and hunt us down while others camped in the remote places we last logged at to try and catch us as we log.

Can't argue with facts, both of us were CvCed to death. The other player Isenheart did not really return after losing his character. Looking backwards , it seems as it was more like a contest who will kill us rather than trying to develop any RP around it, cause there were hundreds of other choices besides CvC.


TSM is not very good server to play evil character, unless you willing to hide it, and then there is little point in it, because there are usually no partners for your activities and somehow secrets always reveal sooner or later.


We have moonshaes now, i think it's much better platform than TSM to play non good characters.

[paazin]

As one of the velshroonites i can honestly say that at some point, it felt like the entire playerbase in TSM is obsessed with killing us. Some players grouped together and literally patrolled the server in circles to try and hunt us down while others camped in the remote places we last logged at to try and catch us as we log.

Can't argue with facts, both of us were CvCed to death. The other player Isenheart did not really return after losing his character. Looking backwards , it seems as it was more like a contest who will kill us rather than trying to develop any RP around it, cause there were hundreds of other choices besides CvC.

Pretty much, rorax.

CvC can be a fun and positive experience to all sides, but this seems like a prime example of where people are just "out hunting" and throw IC out the window. Really manhunts like these strike as little more than griefing considering the structure and limited scope of our servers; viable options that should be available for the tracked pcs aren't there because of the obvious limitations.

[danielmn]

As one of the velshroonites i can honestly say that at some point, it felt like the entire playerbase in TSM is obsessed with killing us. Some players grouped together and literally patrolled the server in circles to try and hunt us down while others camped in the remote places we last logged at to try and catch us as we log.

Can't argue with facts, both of us were CvCed to death. The other player Isenheart did not really return after losing his character. Looking backwards , it seems as it was more like a contest who will kill us rather than trying to develop any RP around it, cause there were hundreds of other choices besides CvC.

Pretty much, rorax.

CvC can be a fun and positive experience to all sides, but this seems like a prime example of where people are just "out hunting" and throw IC out the window. Really manhunts like these strike as little more than griefing considering the structure and limited scope of our servers; viable options that should be available for the tracked pcs aren't there because of the obvious limitations.

End all be all, if you feel your PC is harrassed in such a way and you feel like there is some unfairness, it is best to get an AR or the PA involved so that there is legitimacy, and that the same type of percieved OOC behavior does not persist for you, or others in the future. But absolutely right, this thread has more to do with OOC groupings than IC groupings.

[Castano]

As one of the velshroonites i can honestly say that at some point, it felt like the entire playerbase in TSM is obsessed with killing us. Some players grouped together and literally patrolled the server in circles to try and hunt us down while others camped in the remote places we last logged at to try and catch us as we log.

Can't argue with facts, both of us were CvCed to death. The other player Isenheart did not really return after losing his character. Looking backwards , it seems as it was more like a contest who will kill us rather than trying to develop any RP around it, cause there were hundreds of other choices besides CvC.

Pretty much, rorax.

CvC can be a fun and positive experience to all sides, but this seems like a prime example of where people are just "out hunting" and throw IC out the window. Really manhunts like these strike as little more than griefing considering the structure and limited scope of our servers; viable options that should be available for the tracked pcs aren't there because of the obvious limitations.

As an HDM I feel very strongly about this. Players need to keep in mind that the server covers 1,000,000s of inhabitants. Many of whom are super evil (I can think of a few dozen NPC factions in FR that would make as ripe a target as these 2 PCs, not even counting monsters who are primary evil threats to all of civilization). Selecting a PC over an NPC for a hunt solely because the PC is played by a player, versus an NPC played by a DM or a static spawn is griefing, meta, piss poor RP. I cannot even begin to think this goes on here when our members chest thump around NWN2 as if ALFA is some LEET RP group. We need to sit down and think about what it means to RP our PCs in a manner logical to the setting.

By the way the same goes for hunting goody PCs...why do some evil PCs behave like a complete evil jerk to other PCs and deferentially to NPCs of the same faction? I know I have the F5 button, but be realistic - if you treat a certain group with disdain do so to everyone in the same way. If you play an evil jerk, please treat the NPCs who are of the same good aligned faction the same way (unless you IC know they could own you).

[Mirabai]

[danielmn]

That's loaded Castano, considering you have one version of the tale. But there is something you, as a proud chest thumping HDM can do...

Make sure the DM's under you, on your server, don't send PC's hunting after other PC's. I think that would solve a lot of issues, now wouldn't it? I know it certainly would have in this case.

Can't argue with facts, both of us were CvCed to death.

Since you've seen fit to bring this up yet again, and make offhand insinuations about the player whom killed your PC, and the other players that killed Barrin when everyone knows whom it was that killed your own PC, I will say this...
I've got your facts right here. If you keep insisting on this track of not being able to get over the incident, I will lay every dern fact I have up on the forums about the situation if you really feel it neccessary to air some laundry. And it won't be me painting myself in a good light, because I did make an error or two...but you are painting yourself up to be the martyr of all myrtars when such just is not the case...though I've tried more than once to get this through to you. I personally hate forum drama, and I hate six year old mentallities of I didn't get things my way so Ima throw a tantrum and make people feel sorry for me, but I won't stand by and let others drag me through the mud, man. I personally have no ill will toward you, but if this persists, I'll lay the cards on the table. Period.

[rorax]

Since you've seen fit to bring this up yet again, and make offhand insinuations about the player whom killed your PC, and the other players that killed Barrin when everyone knows whom it was that killed your own PC, I will say this...
I've got your facts right here. If you keep insisting on this track of not being able to get over the incident, I will lay every dern fact I have up on the forums about the situation if you really feel it neccessary to air some laundry. And it won't be me painting myself in a good light, because I did make an error or two...but you are painting yourself up to be the martyr of all myrtars when such just is not the case...though I've tried more than once to get this through to you. I personally hate forum drama, and I hate six year old mentallities of I didn't get things my way so Ima throw a tantrum and make people feel sorry for me, but I won't stand by and let others drag me through the mud, man. I personally have no ill will toward you, but if this persists, I'll lay the cards on the table. Period.

Child down, Daniel.

People said there is some bias opinion against evil characters, i just agreed, and shared my experience, no one accused you Garlus directly, your rash to self defense is a bit odd.

There was a hunting fest to hunt down the velsharoonties, i think people were a bit too eager about it, you and others. Specially, when no player(that i know of) was victimized by us directly or indirectly.


I am not aware of anything i have to hide, to if you wish to 'throw all the cards on tables', by all means do. I'm not painting myself as myrtar or anything, just stating there was negative approach toward evil characters.

[causk]

it is not exactly an bias, if the nature of their faith gets known and given the ic history in the area with velsharoonite cultists it was more suprising to me they lasted as long as they did. Anything else not leading up to cvc at least in the area wouldve been mostly ooc niceness towards other players. If i made a tormite cleric or paladin and walked around skaug preaching about the evil of slavery and stealing, i should expect a swift end and in the interest of survival go elsewhere. Similarily a obviously lolth worshipping drow should be slaughtered within seconds by just about anyone if caught upground. If that doesnt happen, i dont think we are taking the forgotten realms background very serious. Good benchmark seems to me to ask, what likely wouldve been other pcs reaction towards the velsharonites if they had been npcs. If the answer differs (and i would maintain, that it wouldve only accelerated violence), we have bias either way, but i dont really think it applied in that situation.
As to the hunting "fest, i think that is mostly paranoia. The one instance i was involved in started out relatively peacefull and if isenheart wouldve wanted, his pc couldve made an easy getaway several times. So if there was any eagerness for the conflict, it was definately not entirely onesided.

[danielmn]

Since you've seen fit to bring this up yet again, and make offhand insinuations about the player whom killed your PC, and the other players that killed Barrin when everyone knows whom it was that killed your own PC, I will say this...
I've got your facts right here. If you keep insisting on this track of not being able to get over the incident, I will lay every dern fact I have up on the forums about the situation if you really feel it neccessary to air some laundry. And it won't be me painting myself in a good light, because I did make an error or two...but you are painting yourself up to be the martyr of all myrtars when such just is not the case...though I've tried more than once to get this through to you. I personally hate forum drama, and I hate six year old mentallities of I didn't get things my way so Ima throw a tantrum and make people feel sorry for me, but I won't stand by and let others drag me through the mud, man. I personally have no ill will toward you, but if this persists, I'll lay the cards on the table. Period.

Child down, Daniel.

People said there is some bias opinion against evil characters, i just agreed, and shared my experience, no one accused you Garlus directly, your rash to self defense is a bit odd.

There was a hunting fest to hunt down the velsharoonties, i think people were a bit too eager about it, you and others. Specially, when no player(that i know of) was victimized by us directly or indirectly.


I am not aware of anything i have to hide, to if you wish to 'throw all the cards on tables', by all means do. I'm not painting myself as myrtar or anything, just stating there was negative approach toward evil characters.

Man, I am being as patient as I can with it, but this by far isn't the first time you've brought the issue up. And my point was, you don't have to name me or Garlus, that is what an insinuation is, just as if you would refer to the cvc that happened to you before that...you don't need to name names. You don't need to accuse me directly..you've all BUT done that. And I am certainly not rash in my defence...this is again, not the first time you bring it up, which leads other people here to think that, I, though not named directly, but by insinuation, am guilty of...quoting Castano "Selecting a PC over an NPC for a hunt solely because the PC is played by a player, versus an NPC played by a DM or a static spawn is griefing, meta, piss poor RP." Which in turn sure as crap gives me the right to defend myself.

You claim a hunting fest. That may be true man. Not on my end though, as I have explained time and again. Like you, I've nothing to hide. There are a million ways out of the situation besides CVC...and I imagine you would like to dictate how I should play my PC, cause you know him better than I...It is about story, I'm certainly not saying that it isn't, but I think Causk has it right as well....I have given a BOATLOAD of leeway to evil PC's during my time playing considering TSM's Environment.

The simple facts as I understand them, if they need to be reference I can pull up the logs...
Your PC along with two others murders NPC. (DM'ed)
DM has a witness to whom was last with murdered NPC, a bounty is placed on your heads. (DM'ed)
Bounty is rescinded through HDM intervention, so that a free for all DOES NOT TAKE PLACE. Instead, justice is reserved for the Legion. (DM'ed)

During same time...
Quaervarr is burned. (DM'ed)
Contract is put out for builders to rebuild Quaervarr. (DM'ed)
Garlus plans trip to Mithral Hall to make them aware of the contract, since the builders of Felbarr are busy on the Warcrown's Eye Construction site.
In traveling to Mithral Hall, Garlus runs into LEGION SERGEANT Sywyn (PC).
Sywyn (PC) states he has been given authority to hunt Ian down (DM'ed), that Ian is close with Barrin, that Ian is around the Settlestone area.
Sywyn asks Garlus to keep an eye out for Ian, bringing him in if possible
Garlus agrees (at this point I found it extremely unlikely their paths would cross)
Garlus proceeds from High Hold, where he talked with Sywyn, toward Mithral Hall.
On the way to Mithral Hall, Garlus sees Barrin, tells Barrin it is known Ian has been seen with him, and not to get in the way if anything should occur (During which conversation Ian passes right by Garlus and Barrin in plain sight, Garlus does not act because Garlus does not know it is Ian because he doesn't see names floating above PC's)
Garlus goes to the valley leading to Mithral Hall (Where I log. Why? Because once upon a time, Mithral Hall was in the mod, but because of the server size, the area was trimmed, cutting out Mithral Hall. I log to replicate Garlus's time spent in Mithral Hall, be kinda silly to travel to a canyon, turn around and come right back)
Next day I log in, proceed to AT, cross AT, and run into Barrin and hooded human male right on the other side.
Red flags go up, Garlus questions the Identity of said person.
Ian bolts, Garlus chases.
Garlus catches up, begins to attack, eventually subduals Ian.
Barrin catches up, attempts to protect.
Garlus Subduals Ian again after he regains consciousness, bringing out manacles.
Barrin whips Garlus's butt.
Garlus retreats, Barrin stays with unconscious Ian instead of finishing Garlus.
Garlus throws a Flame Wall at Barrin, inadvertantly killing the subdualed Ian. (again, a complete fluke, as I myself had never used the spell before, and did not know it was going to hit Ian, let alone kill him)
A chase proceeds, Garlus runs away, circles around to get the body. (MAIN MISTAKE, my OOC wanting to prevent to raise/rez of said PC, and it was a crud factor and bad form on my part, though the other factor of getting the body, so that Speak with Dead could be cast, also plays a part)
Body IS NOT THERE (disappeared into the terrain because of some glitch), confusion ensues for a moment.
Garlus hefts body, escapes using a one shot teleportation stone that takes him to the University (a powerful item yes, but a one time only item, of which I've never seen another one, unused from previous deeds for the University)
Garlus passes body over to mages to Perform Speak with Dead, to determine exactly how the murder happened, and who else was involved.

As I've stated on multiple occassions, I never hunted Ian. Garlus had an IC reason for being where he was. Moreover, the "hunt" for Ian by Sywyn(sergeant of the legion) was approved by DM, Sywyn then passed that on if Ian was seen to Garlus. His purpose for being up there was completely unrelated...if he had not met Sywyn ON THE WAY to Mithral Hall, the CVC never would have happened. If Ian and Barrin had not been where they were on the other side of the AT, CVC never would have happened. If Ian and Barrin had simply not been together, CVC never would have happened. Garlus was not going out of his way to look for Ian. Merely keeping an eye out. And just so happened to run into him. All in all, bad friggin luck. No hunting. No purposeful logging out and back in near where you camped so I could catch you. Shenanigans Farva. I believe we discussed, since the buggeryness of you being killed by a spell after you were subdualed for shackling, an option of Ian remaining alive, but in custody. SO THERE WAS AN OFFER OF MORE THAN ONE WAY OUT. He could've had a jail break, or any number of other options. If it were my intent to kill Ian outright, I would never have used subdual, or bothered trying to get the shackles out. So things could have gone differently...Ian could have been shackled, and somehow manage to escape Garlus, or any other number of options if he had been taken alive.

That being said....I can't speak for the PC's that went after Barrin. Though Barrin kicked Garlus all over the place, Garlus could have fought back against Barrin a heck of a lot harder than he did, as I've stated. Garlus saw Barrin as protecting his friend, and not wanted for any known crimes, so Garlus wasn't keen on risking his own life to try and kill Barrin (it certainly would've been a close fight if full force had been used). I have no idea why PC's went after Barrin, to be frank. I can go into extreme detail, but I think that shows where exactly I am coming from, as far as defending myself from the insinuations that you were greviously wronged. If I've left anything out mate, feel free to add. So in a respect I think A Velsharoonite could have been unjustly hunted...but it certainly wasn't Ian, Garlus acted on IC information, with perhaps a wrong decision by a DM to let Sywyn be in charge of Ian's capture. And that's not for me to say either...I can't speak as to other players or PC's motivations.

If I've left anything out put it on in since we're airing it. I'd rather people think me a bastard knowing both sides of the story, than just one, though.

[JaydeMoon]

I say we ban danielmn's clique.

What are dwarves but funny little, ill proportioned dirt farmers anyway.

Certainly no loss to remove them from the setting!

Elves too, prancey gay faeries.

[danielmn]

I have often thought of just banning myself...but you'd be so lonely without me, Jayde..

[hollyfant]

Apparently ALFA isn't ready for this discussion; nothing constructive is coming from it.
Could someone lock the thread please?