Life insurance

[hollyfant]

So assuming one does Commune then Raise Dead:

Speak with Dead is cheaper. Why pester the Gods when you can ask the corpse?

[Brokenbone]

I've never thought of using Commune to quiz a deity on what some follower of his or hers wants... it's like asking them where you left your car keys, beneath their attention. They aren't necessarily going to send a Solar or Cornugon or whatever off to search some holy battlefield or workshop or harping choir to check with a Petitioner or whatever they're called once they're part of that deity's contingent, what their wishes might've been. Hell, ask an evil power if you can have what is probably a larva, dretch, manes, or whatever back, the answer's not likely to be favourable, i.e., they give a short answer as opposed to a Yes or No, since a yes or no might be contrary to their interests.

Still, just sock away a bunch of money, have associates trustworthy enough not to spend it on a wake, and find a rep of a moneyhungry faith to get rezzin', Waukeenar for instance should work, unless you're a famed communist or highwayman, or somehow else a "bad thing" in the eyes of someone following the Merchant's Friend.

[dergon darkhelm]

Still, just sock away a bunch of money, have associates trustworthy enough not to spend it on a wake, and find a rep of a moneyhungry faith to get rezzin', Waukeenar for instance should work, unless you're a famed communist or highwayman, or somehow else a "bad thing" in the eyes of someone following the Merchant's Friend.

+1

Perfectly IC play and fits with the setting and D&D both.

[Rotku]

So assuming one does Commune then Raise Dead:

Speak with Dead is cheaper. Why pester the Gods when you can ask the corpse?

The corpse won't know what the soul is experiencing in the after life. The corpse won't know if the person wants to return, after they've found their place at their patron's side. All the corpse would know was what the person wished for BEFORE they died.

[Blindhamsterman]

which generally speaking for the majority of friends would be enough... If I knew that before they died, should they have died they'd not want to be dead I'd bring em back. Perhaps a PC who is more phylosophical might not instead wondering how circumstances have changed, but for many, it simply wouldn't cross their minds.

[Rotku]

Well sure, from the perspective of the still living friend. But from the perspective of the Dead one - the one whose will is most important in this equation - I'm sure a lot will change.

[hollyfant]

Don't the dead usually spend a few days in the Fugue Plane before being processed and moved on to their final destination?

I wanted to write that unless they were Kelemvotites/Jergalists in life, PCs won't have seen all that much to change their minds. But then I got to thinking, and I could only come up with reasons not to stay dead:

• The Wall of the Damned giving a reason to do a few more pious deeds back on Faerûn, just to be sure.
• Negotiations with Devils giving cause to return to life and research a bit more to strike a better bargain next time.
• Stupid PCs thinking the Fugue is all there is to the afterlife, and not liking it.
• Finally realising that going to the Divine Domain of your evil nasty icky Patron might not be such a nice thing after all.
• Feeling duty-bound / needed / loved when being called back.
• Revenge is a dish best served alive.

[johnlewismcleod]

Is there enough gold in the Marches to keep one of Vincent's PC alive...*thinks*

[dergon darkhelm]

So....a number of issues regarding "bringing a soul back into the body"have been raised in this thread. It would be nice to come to a community consensus on them.

There are a number of PC clerics who can now (or soon will be able to) cast these spells. It would be nice to have agreement that spans the entire community for all servers.

As I see it.

1) Should the raising of dead be allowed in ALFA?
2) Should material components be required to do so as per PnP 3.5 rules?
3) Should there be some restriction on the casting on the casting of spells that return dead PCs to life?
4) Should some meta-availability of raising dead be allowed ("life insurance")?
5) Should PCs who have died consider not returning from the dead because of the transformation of their character's soul after death?

SO ...and now all of this is just my opinion.

1) Should the raising of dead be allowed in ALFA?

Yes. While no one actually publicly was opposed to the raising of dead, I think that it should at least be out in the open that it is allowed.

2) Should material components be required to do so as per PnP 3.5 rules?

I say yes. ..... but with the caveat that I mentioned earlier that such items should be available for purchase without DM intervention for PnP prices. From my own perspective of the FR setting, such gems would likely be available at a number of places in urban settings. Both Silverymoon and Baldur's Gate city would be appropriate.

3) Should there be some restriction on the casting on the casting of spells that return dead PCs to life?

As long as the above criteria are met, I say No. IT has been suggested that DMs be present for all such uses of the spell. I would prefer not. Requiring a DM to adjudicate the casting of these spells lessens the role of the PC cleric. If a DM has to be there anyway then why seek the aid of the PC cleric when any NPC cpriest would do just as well and be just as OOC convenient?

4) Should some meta-availability of raising dead be allowed ("life insurance")?

I think we have come to No.

5) Should PCs who have died consider not returning from the dead because of the transformation of their character's soul after death?

Arguments have been made on both sides here. We are an RP community of mature gamers. I would like to see players allowed to make that decision on their own, taking into acccount their PC's perspective.

[Magile]

5) Should PCs who have died consider not returning from the dead because of the transformation of their character's soul after death?

One of my favourite references to a PC being brought back from the dead occurred in ALFA v.1.0, on Mandos' NC server. A Lathanderite (Lathandarite?) follower had been killed, for whatever reason I do not know, and was sent to the seat of his god. Upon being brought back from the dead, he went mad with rage -- whether this was because he felt he was stolen from his god's side or what have you, I do not recall (it was a while back). Regardless, he began to lash out at any source of light, cursing at lamp posts, putting out fires (Smokey would be proud) and essentially hating all sources of light and the sun that followed him in his meaningless existence.

Every PC is going to have a different reaction to how they die. Some may feel comfortable by the side of their patron deity, while others may want their revenge -- in the case above, some may come out as a completely changed person... since they did die and have a traumatic experience, after all. Any player should consider anything for their PC being possible upon death/resurrection, because it's all in THEIR hands, not some random rule, as to how their PC should respond to the situation.

[Castano]

sorry I fail to see how life insurance is "meta". The PC either left behind instructions and money to get it done or they didn't - this is an IC choice - of course certain PC's would never do so, so you can't just willy-nilly buy life insurance for all your characters. Best to have your player friends do it if it is IC for your PC. Remember coming back means there is some great unfinished business left to do (e.g. saving the world or some holy quest) otherwise, even if you left the will behind with the coin in care of a trustworthy good friend/good temple/good NPC, your PC would mostly likely say, thanks but no thanks. Also raise dead spells could fail, or the PC may change his mind after he is dead. But slapping a "meta" label on something because we do not like it it seems a bit off-putting to me.

[rorax]

I think some of the confusion is because in some FR canon materials raise dead is considered normal solution to deal with death, and on some other materials dead is dead.

It's also the same with the novels.


So i think it's a bit confusing how to look on the matter from RP side...


Personally , i would prefer that each raise dead will be dealt with DM to keep it unique and rare, something more than 9th level priest and 5k coins.


Death would probably be less meaningful if every high priest would tell his group members "Oh , on the worst , i'll raise you back if you die..." each time they enter a dungeon...

Maybe it can be considered to take toll from the one who is performing the resurrection, the way of gods to prevent high levels priests interfere with the dead too often.

I realize that it might 'nerf' priests , but maybe they can be compensated in other ways.

[hollyfant]

Truth be told, nerfing Clerics isn't something we need to worry about that much. Mechanically they're "über" and it is the player's task to balance that advantage by adhering to his PC's faith's commandments and limitations. The damage to the Spirit Shaman, a feeble class power-wise, would be greater.

DM coverage has been quite good lately, and at this time it shouldn't be too hard to make an appointment for a supervised ritual. But this hasn't always been the case, and tying down the dead PC in the Fugue and saddling the Cleric with a corpse for a week would not be "a good thing".

I'm not quite sure why returning from the dead has to be unique and special in its execution. Surely the RP implications take care of that? The spell itself is just a spell, no more special than raining death and destruction from the skies and visually a lot less impressive. It's the play afterwards that makes - or breaks - the miraculosity of Raise Dead.

[rorax]

I'm not quite sure why returning from the dead has to be unique and special in its execution. Surely the RP implications take care of that? The spell itself is just a spell, no more special than raining death and destruction from the skies and visually a lot less impressive. It's the play afterwards that makes - or breaks - the miraculosity of Raise Dead.

I don't know...i guess it's does not settle well at least for me with the classic FR settings...

Imagine Drizzt dies, and being raised by the way in the next chapter.

It would be a bit....meaningless...

[hollyfant]

True, but would it be more meaningful if he had a DM supervising the event and someone paid $5000.- for it?

Stories have a beginning, middle and end and so do the characters therein. But PCs aren't characters in a story, they're characters in a world. A "good death" should never be undone, and we all know that. But a meaningless death that leaves all sorts of loose ends in everyone else's life? What's the fun in that?

People who die in a fire saving orphan puppies, get a heroes' funeral. People who're run over by a bus wake up in hospital.