Poll: The Seven Minute Hour

[Blindhamsterman]

i'd aim for 1 IG day being 6 RL hours personally

[Heero]

i'd aim for 1 IG day being 6 RL hours personally

Id make it an odd number. If you play at the same time every time you play, yer still going to be playing at the same IG time every day. So if the 3 RL hours you play in a day are 12 IG hours of dark/twilight, then yer character is still only ever doing anything at night. At least with an odd number of hours for a day, it wont be the same time every time you log in.

Capice?

[Blindhamsterman]

maybe 7 then? That might work?

Of course changing time stuff to be closer to RL has other side effects, how do we handle crafting? does it stay as an RL day is an IC week? do we use a new scale and tweak the rules?

[boombrakh]

... how do we handle crafting? does it stay as an RL day is an IC week? do we use a new scale and tweak the rules?

My two swedish crowns would be to look over them crafting rules either way. Because everything else works on ALFA's signature "comic book time", i don't understand why this would be an exception. We're trying to promote players being engaged in our worlds, aren't we?

[Castano]

Creslyn makes a good popint, though I say builders should not time the presence of NPCs/stores or most server content ever, that's a bad idea IMO, because some people only play alfa for a few hours a week, and sitting idle for a store/boat/npc to appear is not good planning. I have always RP'd that I did my "night shopping" in daylight hours while I was offline - even if in game I am in the store at 3AM (on those stores that have 24/7 attendants).

For what it is worth, nothing on MS is tied to game time, by design, except one thing - our zombie town which spawns at dusk. We ignored the existence of the clock, you can do anything, any time you want - e.g. boats leave at teh "next tide" not "dawn", all stores are always open etc.

I think fixing spell duration trumps all other concerns as buffs impact 100% of alfa.

[Ithildur]

In my experience of various servers I can testify that 1:4 or even 5 improves the pace of things significantly; it really makes a big difference imo when you can feel people are not artificially rushing their RP when they know important hour/lvl spells won't be gone in ten minutes.

Keep in mind the overall lower lvls of ALFA as well; it seems odd when RP lite server X with 1:4 compression has high lvl folks with buffs lasting 3 RL hours during which they can take their time RPing in dungeons, rolling skillchecks, interacting with DMs, etc through an entire session, while ALFA's lvl 3-5 folks start to get nervous after 15 minutes and feels the need to rush things... especially when rushing things might very well result in a much more permanent death than on server X.

[I-KP]

This topic has been baking for a while now. Is anyone in a position to make a decision re this? For that matter, who are the people that need to speak up?

If the general will is for a change, and it does appear to be that way, then the details can be fought over, perhaps in a more appropriate poll (see below), once word is passed down that something could be done.

E.g.,

Reducing Game Time Compression To (w/ current being 8.6:1)...
6:1 (10 RL mins = 1 IC hour)
4:1 (15 RL mins = 1 IC hour)
3:1 (20 RL mins = 1 IC hour)
2.5:1 (24 RL mins = 1 IC hour)
2:1 (30 RL mins = 1 IC hour)
1.5:1 (45 RL mins = 1 IC hour)

[Ithildur]

Some more thoughts, in terms of balance.

The way the spell durations are designed in pnp, rnd/lvl and minute/lvl spells are meant for 1 or two encounters perhaps usually; these are fine, as are 10 minute spells more or less. It's the hour/lvl stuff that's way way off; these should at least allow you breathing room to take some time to search around a few areas thoroughly, scout around, talk, plan, banter, and deal with a couple of fights (or more at higher lvls, eventually you have all day with extended spell at higher lvls). Plus in pnp there is no 8 hour cooldown period; if you have a tough fight and blow all your spells and abilties, you can rest immediately pending finding a safe location or having an effective security spell, barring some kind of urgency/event timer. That's how the game's balanced (although DMs love to mess with this by making resting challenging from time to time); in light of this life is much harder in ALFA on some levels than they ever are in PnP for PCs; a typical 3, 4 hour DM event they often have to survive more fights with less spells/abilties/options to go around unless they really want to RP waiting somewhere for hours (which I've seldom seen).

The only thing that happens faster in terms of RL time vs ingame time in pnp (aside from stuff that takes days or weeks like crafting) that I can think of is doing a very through search or scouting of a relatively large area, i.e. DM says 'ok, you search the entire stadium, I/you roll bunch of dice, done'; i.e. hours can pass by in minutes realtime, just like in NWN. When you do this, the hour/lvl spells might fade.

It's often the opposite in a typical DM session in ALFA; walk up to a door, listen at it, thoroughly check for traps, discuss what options are, possibly spot/notice something odd faintly scrawled on the wall above the door, should take all of 2-5 minutes if the rogue takes 20 while the party discusses briefly, etc. In NWN/ALFA with dice being rolled, typing what is being said and emoted, etc, it can take half an hour. That's what, four hours in terms of the hour/lvl spells currently? Repeat that for say, three or four suspicious looking doors. Should take 20 minutes, even a lvl 1 Mage Armor is still going strong in pnp and still in place even if there was an encounter behind each door, but in ALFA currently doing that will mean effectively half the day is gone by game clock; even a high lvl hour/lvl spell will be gone.

There's no solution that will match pnp exactly/mathematically obviously, but at least we can make it so that people can feel like checking three or four doors thoroughly while bantering won't mean half the day is gone with all the hour/lvl spells.

Plus good morning's will at least be over by second breakfast rather than lunchtime.

[Blindhamsterman]

4:1 ration remains my preference, though keeping creslyn and heeros point of making sure people log in at different IC times, a 5:1 ration might be better?

I think Ithiludur summed things up nicely however.

Basically, making spells all last longer would mean we can all slow down a bit to really get some more RP in without fear of being stuck in a place with no defenses left and a very real chance of dying because of it. Equally, the longer days would equate to there being larger gaps between when spells could be cast, in effect making spellcasters a bit less powerful in terms of sheer damage etc (which in turn might promote buffing the party a bit more than it currently does)

[Brokenbone]

I kind of like ithildur's examples as well.

Two "character minutes" of checking a door and discussing the tactics / order of march can well take 20-30 minutes of dice rolling, DM narration, people typing at whatever pace they happen to type, making sure one guy hasn't AFK'd for a phone call or whatever. However, the IG clock keeps on ticking. Means a few IG hours may have been blown through. I've certainly seen the occasional OOC frustration from players managing buffs, needing to "rush through room by room" due to putting buffs on maybe too early, thinking they were going to crash into a dungeon, but then getting held up by talks, AFKs, whatever.

Higher level casters may mean players have a bit of breathing room to stop and smell the roses. Or dice. Or reply to DM tells. Etc. Those with very short buffs, at low levels, may find themselves having a tougher time due in part, to time compression and the "desired state" of having an RP focus, where yes, we're courteous to each other, letting players spell out their character's views, ideas, letting people attend to RL things like phone, spouse, kid, pet needing to pee... whatever.

I think considering monkeying with the overall IG clock a better approach than say, editing all the spells to go into longer durations or anything of that nature. Such as moving rounds to minutes or minutes to 10 minutes or anything, as "tactical time" for those who cast stuff right in a fight or just moments before, doesn't need lengthening.

I do not know how much stuff is built with attention to day/night cycle, Castano highlighted that MS doesn't have all the shops shutter and key NPCs vanish at dusk. Maybe that's not a universal building theory though.

I find it tough to envision the "hypothetical problem" of PCs stuck in a realm of eternal day or eternal night based on the regularity of their login times and some lengthening of time scales. Anything different than 1:1 will desynch with real time pretty quickly. Server resets also create new "dawns", don't they? Even if they don't, servers are vacant often enough that some kind of randomization jump forward could be fudged when no one's around to see it (yes it could mildly impact offline resting time, giving a little bonus, but who cares?)

If a goal is "promoting RP", lessening a pressure of compressed time and buffs may outweigh "gee what if a PC is afraid of the dark and night gets longer" (yes I know that's a straw man and oversimplified). Go ahead and take your 30 minutes real time to do 2 minutes of planning at the door, pressure's off. I do know that DMs seem unafraid to use Pause when required, though it sometimes might be seen as an insult-to-injury situation when the five "haves" in a dungeon with a DM have pauses for hand-managed situations, and five "have nots" are stuck out in taverns or on statics enduring pauses that remind them "you're not part of this night's session, but are online anyhow."

[I-KP]

a 5:1 ration might be better?

I'd just like to say the 15 (aka. 4:1) is an odd number. Concerns about being forever locked into a particular game world time slot by virtue of your real world location are valid but as long as the RL minutes per IC hour are significantly less than 60 (preferably less than 30) everyone's a whi^h^h^hwinner.

As you were.

[kid]

I do have an issue with making spells last longer tho.
when playing ALFA most session would not last longer than 2-3 hours. (rare ones 4-5)
So casters might never run out of spells.
if we play with the clock it would mean you will never be able
to find a high lv caster without his buffs on. casue they would
ast thru out the duration of his game time.

he will be unbuffed only it the 20 hours a day when he does not play.

now clerics and wizards are powerful enough in a relativly low magic settings.

if you add longer spell time to the mix...
the blanace would tilt even more towards them.
just my 2 cents.

[I-KP]

I do have an issue with making spells last longer tho.
when playing ALFA most session would not last longer than 2-3 hours. (rare ones 4-5)
So casters might never run out of spells.
if we play with the clock it would mean you will never be able
to find a high lv caster without his buffs on. casue they would
ast thru out the duration of his game time.

he will be unbuffed only it the 20 hours a day when he does not play.

now clerics and wizards are powerful enough in a relativly low magic settings.

if you add longer spell time to the mix...
the blanace would tilt even more towards them.
just my 2 cents.

Interesting point of view. I'm of the opposite opinion. By far the most effective spells and effects are the one-shot-wonders, not the lasting buffs, and with a lower time compression that means there is a longer period of time between refreshes, which means fewer and more carefully applied hard hitting spells per extended gaming session. Primary casters are too powerful in today's ALFA and addressing the time compression goes some way to empowering the grunt with the sword over the finger-wrigglers.

[Rotku]

That's the interesting thing about magic and time - people do seem to be split between "It makes magic more powerful!" and "It makes magic weaker."

[Blindhamsterman]

I think it does both.

It moves the focus away from damage spells to buffs, as buffs will last long enough to be worth while (note that it has /no/ effect on minute/level buffs, and will make 10min/level buffs last less than hour/level buffs finally) So... the added power is longer duration for the buffs, which generally lots of folk benefit from, not just the casters.

The way it makes them weaker is that damage spells become somewhat less useful, meaning wizards will stop being big damage dealers in many situations.

The other way it makes them weaker is that casters will have to wait longer to regain spells. Which is a bigger deal, and I don't really think unfair either.