An open question...

[Zelknolf]

There was content added to TSM at some point that addressed this at the suggestion of myself and others wishing more rogue content. In the static "dungeon" areas locked and trapped containers would spawn with loot that would get broken to useless if the container was bashed. There were a few issues with the trap DCs early on but they were remedied. Wynna scripted it I believe. As far as i know it is no longer in the mod, and the scripts are not implemented on our other live servers. I have no idea why it was removed and would love to see it added back in. The work is done, by a very talented scripter.

I have seen these chests spawn. They are rare because there are a few farmers still ransacking every cave that contains things that move and/or may contain loot every reset.

// edit -- they are not rogues. They just break the chests and say "Meh" to the things that get broken. It leaves very little evidence for the next person who shows up.

[oldgrayrogue]

There was content added to TSM at some point that addressed this at the suggestion of myself and others wishing more rogue content. In the static "dungeon" areas locked and trapped containers would spawn with loot that would get broken to useless if the container was bashed. There were a few issues with the trap DCs early on but they were remedied. Wynna scripted it I believe. As far as i know it is no longer in the mod, and the scripts are not implemented on our other live servers. I have no idea why it was removed and would love to see it added back in. The work is done, by a very talented scripter.

I have seen these chests spawn. They are rare because there are a few farmers still ransacking every cave that contains things that move and/or may contain loot every reset.

// edit -- they are not rogues. They just break the chests and say "Meh" to the things that get broken. It leaves very little evidence for the next person who shows up.

As PA I am putting a call out to all DMs and players: If you observe the "farming" behavior that everyone says is happening please report it so that it can be investigated and dealt with through the appropriate channels. I have access to logs as PA but not to the DM Client. Unless DMs or players report farmers there is only so much I can do from the logs. If this is going on I am giving fair warning to any that might be engaged in it that all violations will be dealt with to the full extent permissible under our rules. The static content on the servers is there for everyone to enjoy, not for a few players to abuse.

[Castano]

thanks OGR. generally when players complain about X or lack of X, usually it's that way because builders are afriad to build X in a different better way, or can't put X in at all because someone willa buse it. I never ever want to see threads about investigations concerning what I build...it's not fun for me...so sorry, but yeah bad apples do ruin things.

no i didn't build thos really cool chests, but someone did and they are now probably pissed that they were being abused and had to be taken out. But I did put timers on my spawns so when you see a lack of static content it's because if I respawn every 6 hrs..people will abuse the server for XP.

[Galadorn]

Without the respawn timers, some players will never ever see spawns (if they are interested).

Also, WITH the respawns, won't it be easier and quicker to catch the farmers?


~G

[Veilan]

Also, WITH the respawns, won't it be easier and quicker to catch the farmers?


~G

Don't worry, we know who you are anyway. The hobgoblin warlords told us.

[Galadorn]

Don't worry, we know who you are anyway. The hobgoblin warlords told us.

oh stop it

i dare you to to to to to attempt to accuse me of farming!

((unless of course there are any hobgoblin warlords around...or battlemasters...))

[Veilan]

((unless of course there are any hobgoblin warlords around...or battlemasters...))

If there were... I could not tell you, for their safety's sake.

[oldgrayrogue]

thanks OGR. I never ever want to see threads about investigations concerning what I build...it's not fun for me...so sorry, but yeah bad apples do ruin things.

This is my point. If PA is advised by DMs or players as to who the bad apples are, as our rules contemplate, then the conduct can be investigated and sanctioned where appropriate. Hopefully this will serve to deter continued bad behavior, by offenders or others thinking about breaking our rules. Investigating and punishing rules violations is absolutely the last thing I want to be doing with my time, but if the lack of enforcement (because no one reports specific violations) leads to a lack of content for everyone to enjoy, then we really are permitting a few bad apples to spoil the whole bunch for the rest of us, and that is a shame.

But I did put timers on my spawns so when you see a lack of static content it's because if I respawn every 6 hrs..people will abuse the server for XP.

I would prefer to see the content there for trustworthy players who do not abuse it rather than water it down as a reaction to those few who get their jollies earning gold and XP. We have standards for wealth. Level rate and level progression is moderated by standards and DMs. If a few "bad apples" are abusing your content then lets sanction them under our standards and our rules rather than stripping or reducing content which only serves to "punish" those not engaged in such conduct and who may only have those few hours a day, or a week to play.

Sorry, but I have always strongly felt that tailoring our systems to deal with farmers and exploiters is the wrong way to go. Scripts can deal with cheaters much more effectively IMO, either through diminishing returns, or better, scripts that fire uber spawns to deal with the repeat farmer ICly. Seriously, if your PC visits the same cave(s) of goblins every time you log on don't you think that eventually they will get some help to take you out?

Dedicated farmers or exploiters will always find a way to beat the system, no matter how far the content gets stripped. The only effective way to deal with them is enforcement. "Front end enforcement" by attempting to make it difficult or impossible for them to break the rules doesn't work and simply lessens the experience for the rest of us.

I'd rather have us focus our technology on IC repurcussions for those who do in fact engage in this behavior, than on the majority who do not. So to the extent the chests I described were pulled because they were abused, have them fire a mega trap by script if the same player tries to loot it too close in time. This at least tries to make some IC sense out of the behavior. When we do it the other way around we have the incongruous result of only the dedicated farmers advancing and progressing in terms of wealth and XP, and those who play by the rules creeping along in frustration. In my view it actually encourages farming rather than deters it.

Anyway, that's how I see it. I am not into witch hunts. I want our players to enjoy the content on the servers and have fun. But when content is not developed, or eliminated, because of a fear of abuse it riles me, and I think the appropriate response is to deal with those doing the abusing.

[Lucifer]

thanks OGR. I never ever want to see threads about investigations concerning what I build...it's not fun for me...so sorry, but yeah bad apples do ruin things.

This is my point. If PA is advised by DMs or players as to who the bad apples are, as our rules contemplate, then the conduct can be investigated and sanctioned where appropriate. Hopefully this will serve to deter continued bad behavior, by offenders or others thinking about breaking our rules. Investigating and punishing rules violations is absolutely the last thing I want to be doing with my time, but if the lack of enforcement (because no one reports specific violations) leads to a lack of content for everyone to enjoy, then we really are permitting a few bad apples to spoil the whole bunch for the rest of us, and that is a shame.

But I did put timers on my spawns so when you see a lack of static content it's because if I respawn every 6 hrs..people will abuse the server for XP.

I would prefer to see the content there for trustworthy players who do not abuse it rather than water it down as a reaction to those few who get their jollies earning gold and XP. We have standards for wealth. Level rate and level progression is moderated by standards and DMs. If a few "bad apples" are abusing your content then lets sanction them under our standards and our rules rather than stripping or reducing content which only serves to "punish" those not engaged in such conduct and who may only have those few hours a day, or a week to play.

Sorry, but I have always strongly felt that tailoring our systems to deal with farmers and exploiters is the wrong way to go. Scripts can deal with cheaters much more effectively IMO, either through diminishing returns, or better, scripts that fire uber spawns to deal with the repeat farmer ICly. Seriously, if your PC visits the same cave(s) of goblins every time you log on don't you think that eventually they will get some help to take you out?

Dedicated farmers or exploiters will always find a way to beat the system, no matter how far the content gets stripped. The only effective way to deal with them is enforcement. "Front end enforcement" by attempting to make it difficult or impossible for them to break the rules doesn't work and simply lessens the experience for the rest of us.

I'd rather have us focus our technology on IC repurcussions for those who do in fact engage in this behavior, than on the majority who do not. So to the extent the chests I described were pulled because they were abused, have them fire a mega trap by script if the same player tries to loot it too close in time. This at least tries to make some IC sense out of the behavior. When we do it the other way around we have the incongruous result of only the dedicated farmers advancing and progressing in terms of wealth and XP, and those who play by the rules creeping along in frustration. In my view it actually encourages farming rather than deters it.

Anyway, that's how I see it. I am not into witch hunts. I want our players to enjoy the content on the servers and have fun. But when content is not developed, or eliminated, because of a fear of abuse it riles me, and I think the appropriate response is to deal with those doing the abusing.

+1 to all of that..as a player I want the struff there for my PC when it is appropriate for him..I could care less what player X'x char is doing or how fast they progress/gain power..unlerss they are allowed to grief my Character..in over a year of playing in ALFA I have not seen that happen...PvP deaths do occaisionally happen..it should always be a planned DM'ed happening..if at that point one PC seems over-equipped ect. That is where DM's Admins annd PA's can and should get involved. Other than that the fact that PC X can kill more MOB's quicker than your PC should be of no consequence.