Opinions on the Current Death System

[oldgrayrogue]

And lastly, that mean OGR wants to ruin my fun and kill my lv14 toon,
I hope we ban him forevers.

PGer

[HEEGZ]

I think it is well established that we are not going to start beyond level 1. We already offer plenty of XP boosts for leveling up, and there is a lot of static content available as well. At level two you can get a 250xp boost for submitting a bio...

It is hard to imagine ALFA with a level cap (say 8, as kid mentioned) without a clean slate. I can't imagine this would be popular because of how many higher level PCs we have. Also, I think some of our DMs might enjoy DMing higher level PCs.

I find myself in near perfect agreement with everything OGR is posting. When it comes to the death system, I would really prefer to just drop the floor completely and have no new systems in place. Handle bleeding and rolls for negatives and be done with it. The NWN1 experience was really fun and made combat a bit more exciting.

That said, half the poll respondents are happy with leaving things the way they are or want them even less hard core! Wow. Well, with a divide like this, I think it is better to just well enough alone, even though I prefer a more hardcore experience. This whole discussion has been helpful though, and if we lose the -6 floor out of the whole deal then even better.

[kid]

That said, half the poll respondents are happy with leaving things the way they are or want them even less hard core! Wow.

Well, still the largest number of voters wants it to be more hard core.

[boombrakh]

Well, still the largest number of voters wants it to be more hard core.

To me, you'll always be hard core, kid. <3

[Heero]

Well, still the largest number of voters wants it to be more hard core.

Actually, I think the score is 20 for the carebears and 19 for the brown bear hard dogs. As is true in any democracy, 51% of the voter base has the right to impose their will upon the other 49%.

Im with OGR on the pitfalls of level 1/2. Its totally OOCly-motivated to sit around in the tavern RPing until its 'safe' to go out. In DnD, we, at least some of us, deign to play adventurers. I love ALFA's hardcore, permadeath, slow advancement game; however, the slow advancement really hurts low level play.

In a PnP game a wet-behind-the-ears adventurer can often successfully level in a single encounter signifying the experience, real (fake real) world experience gained in utilizing ones up-til-that-point theoretical experience in whatever profession chosen in a real (fake real) world situation. Alternately, ALFA representation of taking that step from having theoretical knowhow to having practical experience involves either the defeat of 50 golbins at 20xp each (assuming you arent playing caddy and receiving diminished rewards) or spending 67 RL hours in the tavern -- possibly offset slightly by endeavoring to toil in mail delivery and the like; possibly increased greatly in the undertaking a few tasks in the form of statics as a caddy or increased slightly in the undertaking of level-appropriate statics with like-leveled parties; or offset whoknowshowmuch with the help of DM-run adventures or non-adventurers. No matter which method one chooses, it is still often a 'grind' to reach a point where an adventure involving a single goblin doesnt run the risk of killing your character outright.

I am looking for a place to have some quality RP with meaningful risks and rewards; I am not interested in 'grinding', be it in the killing of thing after thing or the logging in every night for countless hours to RP in a tavern. I realize not everyone is after the same thing as I am, but I simply cant buy into a character in a game of DnD being ICly motivated to sit around doing nothing for a few weeks until he/she all of sudden has the IC motivation on account of OOC knowledge to finally head out there and go for it with all the new skills magically gained from sitting on his/her ass.

This is a completely off topic rant, I realize and in with a preemptive tl;dr...

My thoughts on the Current Death System are that it sucks. It sucks because as a high(er) level character it is so hard to get back into a game you were enjoying and it sucks because as a low level it encourages doing a whole lot of nothing. I have no alternative to offer.

[kid]

The single option that got the most votes (not the majority of the votes...) is more hardcore.

[oldgrayrogue]

Well said Heero. I'll go adventuring with you any day, even at level 1.

[Ithildur]

Well said Heero. I'll go adventuring with you any day, even at level 1.

Good luck on your next PC

[Castano]

I agree with Heero's sentiments. If I had buy in from ALFA I would remove RPXP entirely and up the rewards from combat and one-time static quests to compensate and let people get out of level 1 land faster.

[kid]

Anyone got a pic of Captain Picard?

[Ithildur]

The single option that got the most votes (not the majority of the votes...) is more hardcore.

Sorry kid, that's as big a spin as any I've seen in a long while; you're on your way to being a great lawyer, jeez louise...

So far a majority do not want things changed to be more hardcore. I myself lean towards taking out the floor, or at least some harsher consequences if people get saved by the floor multiple times within a short period of time, etc. But I do not favor drastic changes to core elements of gameplay that will impact everyone, if the majority do not clearly support it.

[Zelknolf]

It does look like if we ran this runoff style (the most unpopular opinions removed from the poll and we take a majority of the final two), the "do nothings" would have it. I guess we can listen to kid trying to argue that FPTP is a fair and equitable voting system. Fortunately, he's likely to die of disease back there in 1750 when such opinions were not thoroughly debunked by math and history. That said, this isn't exactly an overwhelming result. As the poll reads right now, it's by a two-vote margin.

I would, before suggesting the value of compromise, say that I am one of those three unpopular people who would rather that our death system be more lenient (specifically, I think we handle raising folk from the dead brutally and arbitrarily, and would rather that raises only be prevented by the choice of the dead character or some concerted in-character effort by enemies [trapping souls, destroying bodies, or the like] combined with availability of resources [e.g. enemies efforts make dead guy so screwed that you need a miracle and a true rezz to bring him back]). And then I would bet that it would take little cognitive effort from the people on the 'don't make it harder core' side to sympathise with the other half of the community. If it was those opinions holding 49% of the sway, and the 'remove the floor entirely' crowd were to have its way without regard for basically half of the community (as it was looking like it would be for the first day that the poll was running), surely my talk of compromise would sound better than the alternative.

Fortunately, we're not congress, and we can be better than that. Folk arguing for the far sides can hopefully come in toward the middle ground, and we can keep in mind that our goal is a place that we all play in, where 'winner takes all' isn't particularly useful.

[Veilan]

say that I am one of those three unpopular people who would rather that our death system be more lenient

Unpopular? Nah, perhaps just more honest. Also, there are many merits of eliminating favouritism and arbitrariness by following your system.

...

Anyway, ALFA's big trend through making anonymous majority voting somehow more or less binding whenever we had a "majority" for more leniency has convinced me of one thing: Most ALFAn's enjoy "hardcore", as long as applies to others before them.

Or more benevolently put, as long as they can convince themselves their exceptionalism somehow warrants, well, an exception.

Maybe that sounds harsh, but it is just a common human instinct, and nothing I condemn (I caught myself thinking along those lines here and there); I just wish we would let some insights about human nature influence our decision making process.

Cheers,

[kid]

I was just trying to cheer up Heegz to let him know things aren't all that bad.
Not to rig a pole or mislead the masses...

Crazy ALFA people.

((Thought really, 20 want it same or linnet. 38 want it same or more hardcore.We are defiantly leaning towards a more hard core play. Wasn't claiming it got a majority of the votes, or that the pole is in favor of change (it is not). I think the vote states people would rather not change anything, but if they will change it... it will be to something which is more hardcore, and by fuck they wouldn't like it to be any easier.))

// 21/37 whatever.

[Ronan]

Would anyone not prefer a -25 (or some high number) bleed limit to the floor?

Most [people] enjoy "hardcore", as long as applies to others before them.

FTFY. its just another example of a public good problem, except this one is funded by fresh PC bodies.

Heero, you should have joined my campaign. Level 1 was hitting goblins over the head with tree branches and skulking through jungles. Last session also involved (under) fishing.