To fix permadeath

[Zakharra]

Why not make the creatures like bears, wolves and badgers that seem to kill a lot of PCs, be less hostile, as they are in nature. Most predators are not auto-attacking people in RL, but prefer to avoid huimans unless they are startled/scared, defending a lair, food or babies. For bandits, how often do you think bandits would rather knock someone out, steal their stuff then leave the unconcious body?

I haven't played much NWN2/AFLA2, but most people I talked to and what I read on the forum pointed that even the well 'patrolled' roads seemed to be uncommonly hostile and dangerous. Which seems stupid for any realm that wanted to survive and prosper. If well armed PCs can't survive a trip on a well patrolled road, how can a merchant and his pack mule survive? The odds are that the merchant would be robbed and beated if not killed much more than the PC since merchants have more money.

I can understand that you want people to group up, but by making the places outside of the towns/cities extremely hostile to solo PCs, you are making PCs either afraid to leave the town or leave the server entirely. ALFA is also forcing rangers and druids to stay in towns/cities for fear of death. Druids and rangers should be more comfortable in the wilderness than in a town. Yet they have to stay in a 'civilized' area for fear of death.

The times I played, there might have been a DM on maybe 3 times. I had one person to RP with consistantly and I was hurt, almost killed several times. If not for my companion to help, my PC would have died. The 'healpack' option I found was extremely clunky to use and did -not- work on 3 occassions, or it automatically tried to be applied to myself rather than the person I targetted.

Perma death does not need to mean instant death.

[AcadiusLost]

Badgers, wolves, etc currently operate on morale scripts, which mean attacks by them are fairly rare (they will usually just flee from even solo PCs).

The main road on TSM is now regularly patrolled by defender-type NPCs, and hostile spawns within visual distance of the road itself are (and have been) extremely rare.

Attempting to AT into a new area which has a hostile near the AT destination throws a warning and gives opportunity to cancel/abort the AT.

The bandaging items do work, as does the right-click "aid" contextmenu option. New players coming from NWN1 may find the targeting confusing at first, but it's not hard to get used to. The same mechanics apply to healing potions and spells, if you just activate them while you're targeted on an enemy, they are going to end up targeting your opponent. This is a global NWN2 thing, and just means remembering to un-target your opponent before just hotkeying the healing/bandaging/etc and assuming it's going to work on what you would like it to.

Really, very few of the gripes in this thread seem to actually correspond to the current situation on TSM these days.

re: NPC bandits using nonlethal damage to rob and leave PCs behind; that's possible now that we've got subdual/nonlethal combat scripts in, but would take quite a bit of builder work and testing to accomplish. As far as I know, human and demihuman bandits are not a big IC problem currently in TSM, so maybe it's something Baldur's Gate will want to implement.

I might behoove some of those who were frustrated with NWN2-ALFA closer to Live to give it another shot before attempting to speak definitively about it's limitations. 10 months of constant development in response to player and DM feedback does mean a number of improvements, surprisingly enough.

[hollyfant]

Badgers, wolves, etc currently operate on morale scripts, which mean attacks by them are fairly rare (they will usually just flee from even solo PCs).

They seemed eager to attack summoned creatures, up to the point where summoning a defender will start a fight rather than avoid one.

[NickD]

The same mechanics apply to healing potions and spells, if you just activate them while you're targeted on an enemy, they are going to end up targeting your opponent. This is a global NWN2 thing, and just means remembering to un-target your opponent before just hotkeying the healing/bandaging/etc and assuming it's going to work on what you would like it to.

If, like myself, you keep automatically performing actions on the wrong person, I would suggest switching off the "Automatically Run Actions on Current Target" option in the Action Options group box on the Interface tab of the Options screen. This means you always have to select who to perform any action (spellcasting, healing potions, etc) on.

[Zakharra]

The bandaging items do work, as does the right-click "aid" contextmenu option. New players coming from NWN1 may find the targeting confusing at first, but it's not hard to get used to. The same mechanics apply to healing potions and spells, if you just activate them while you're targeted on an enemy, they are going to end up targeting your opponent. This is a global NWN2 thing, and just means remembering to un-target your opponent before just hotkeying the healing/bandaging/etc and assuming it's going to work on what you would like it to.

I tried that and I either used it on myself(some sort of auto function, and I was not wounded) or the enemy was reaquired when they hit me, as I clicked to heal myself or the other person.

Part of my problem I did and still find the entire uuser interface extremely clumsy. Obsidian put in a badly designed system.

[johnlewismcleod]

This tread is really beginning to drift back to the "Helping the fallen" thread now, and there are some significant mechanics issues surrounding that. With effort I will refrain from repeating them , but the interest in a solution does seem significant , although a separate issue from the genisis of this post, I think.

[Creslyn]

Actually, just to address the first aid/bleeding issue, the single biggest difference between nwn1 and nwn2 is that the Heal skill is no longer a class skill for everyone and their mother. Only divine casters get it as a class skill, so the ones who get it don't need it, and the ones who need it don't get it.

[Mulu]

Yep. Claiming the DC is the same is a bit disingenuous. It may be the same number, but the PC's by and large have a much lower skill, so it ends up being much harder to pull off for an non-cleric. At low levels you can't even break a 50/50 on it, and I never got a second chance to bandage anyone who was bleeding in NWN2. I also remember bleeding and recovering several times in NWN1, and that never happened for me in NWN2. Maybe it was just a luck thing, or maybe the current NWN1 scripts are different than they were back in 2004/2005 when I did most of my playing there.

[Castano]

We need to look at server design if people are dying on well traveled roads and such...If they are dieing in the "Really Mean Orcs Live Here" woods...or on the "route into mountains is closed due to frost giants" road well that's their fault, and no samaritan is wading into an enemy camp to save your butt. Basically, the regional economy needs to be laid down first..if the place has farms and is well settled or has commerce, then the main roads are likely to be safe, and your encounters should be of the friendly sort. If the road is only traveled say a couple months of the year for trade ala Icewind Dale, then the road won't be safe - or may only be safe at certain times.

That being said...even if the roads are made safe, people will get bored going from town 1 to town 2 to look at buildings, and evetually enter the nasty woods solo to meet their doom. We need to figure out a way to prevent soloing, such as DM's putting parties together, it may mean that as a community we need to build more PCs that are more compatible with each other.

[Veilan]

it may mean that as a community we need to build more PCs that are more compatible with each other.

What? Sacrifice my personal freedom of building my über emo oh so cool background (Not that he'd tell anyone... but it's really cool! Really!) evil half-drow-aasimar spellfire channeler / spellfire wielder / monk, just to be conducive to the overall campaign experience? Certainly, you have lost your marbles! We all know that roleplaying is about narcistically displaying your own character and fulfilling your own desires! How could it be about playing with others and assuring that you together can have an enjoyable experience! I demand instant gratification now, and for myself only!

[johnlewismcleod]

it may mean that as a community we need to build more PCs that are more compatible with each other.

What? Sacrifice my personal freedom of building my über emo oh so cool background (Not that he'd tell anyone... but it's really cool! Really!) evil half-drow-aasimar spellfire channeler / spellfire wielder / monk, just to be conducive to the overall campaign experience? Certainly, you have lost your marbles! We all know that roleplaying is about narcistically displaying your own character and fulfilling your own desires! How could it be about playing with others and assuring that you together can have an enjoyable experience! I demand instant gratification now, and for myself only!

Heh...unfortunately I resemble that remark just now .I've learned a lesson or three about backgrounds myself recently .

Veilan and Castano have potentially hit a nail on the head here. If you feel the need to make your PC evil, shy, grotesque, abrasive, or any of the other common attributes that hamper integration into groups, be prepared for boredom.

Also take care about putting "interesting" hooks that could blow-up with unintended consequenses later, i.e. cursed by a god (what happens when he/she meets a cleric of that god?), or attacks orcs,demonkin, [insert race here] on contact because he/she [insert reason here] (what happens when she/he needs to interact with one of these IG to integrate or keep a plot going), etc....

If we're all uber gregarious do-gooders it would be boring, but try not to build an outcast unless you really, really want play one, heh

[Pelham]

A way to look at this is to examine what damage is. Is every situation where a character is reduced to zero or negative hit points a "critical arterial wound" situation? If so, then a certain degree of dramatic opportunity is lost. From a game design standpoint, it might be interesting if a wound reducing a character to negative hit points might not be a non-bleeding but hard core stat reducing injury such as a broken leg (-8 Dexterity) or some such. Or, just being knocked out.

John
Pelham
aka Pel-el

[Kest]

I can't take 3E HP seriously after dealing with the 4E bloodied/unconscious/dying and healing surges system. It feels like a giant step back.

[Rotku]

Who raised this dead thread?! Come on guys, we have permadeath here in ALFA! Let the dead thread remain dead

[hollyfant]

Horses are semi-excluded from the perma-death rules. While they do indeed remain dead, we may still flog them as if they weren't. Until their morale improves, of course.