class changes and balancing Again..

[ayergo]

You can't make this game unexploitable.

+1

No, because in ALFA we only make it closer to PnP if it is a negative change for a class.

Agreed. Paladin warhorse pls, thnx.

Edit: Apparently its not obvious that a implementing a paladin warhorse is damn near impossible. I'm amazed that not only could folks take such a ridiculous demand seriously but also take personal offense to it. See below for explanation. Just so we're clear, i never expect to see such a thing implemented. I can't believe i had to explain that... yikes.

[AcadiusLost]

No, because in ALFA we only make it closer to PnP if it is a negative change for a class.

Wizards: can now restore spells anywhere they can use their spellbooks undisturbed, instead of only in "rest areas".

Clerics: can now restore spells at whatever time of day (and place) suits their diety, instead of only in "rest areas".

Multiclassed casters: can restore innate/divine/arcane spells independently

All casters: gain the benefit of having their spells pre-restored when logging on for the day.

Fighters: now receive natural healing for "game days" spent offline.

Mind over Body Feat: Awards a nodrop, stacking +1 AC token to be more in line with PnP rules for the feat.

Seamless ATs: allow PCs with investment in Spot to identify danger on the other side of an area transition.

Self Sufficient Feat: applies circumstance bonus to Heal checks when bandaging dying PCs.

Healing potions: useable on other PCs outside of combat, and on dying PCs even during combat.

Bastard swords: usable two-handed via the martial feat, weapon focus no longer requires Exotic as a prerequisite.

Use Magic Device:
1. can be used by wizards to allow activation of scrolls that they do not have the attributes for, by rolling a UMD check coupled with a caster level check.
2. Checks all possible ways a scroll might be activated, (each class for which it may be on the spell list), and uses the most advantageous to attempt with, automatically.

the list goes on.

[edit: all characters- can make camp in the wilds to rest places other than inns]

Pretty much everywhere I've been involved with core systems, it's involved PnP-based Improvements on what we're offered by the game engine. It's a hell of of a lot of work, and is generally done in addition to compensating for absurdities of software written for a limited singleplayer campaign. The exploits/overpowered/poor implementations are just the changes that people get most vocal about. I understand you're frustrated with what you perceive as a culture of Nerfism. It's legitimate to discuss and take issue with individual changed being suggested in the name of "balance"- but snide comments along these lines do nothing but engender frustration between the people who put the hours in on implementing and testing these changes, and the people who are benefitting from them every day ingame. Please, give the "ALFA only makes things worse for players" rhetoric a break.

I've got no problem with debate over whether this or that adjustment is necessary or feasible, I do a fair bit of that myself, especially when it comes to logistics of some of the PnP-minded changes suggested. But, seriously, can you look over this list and still say we only make negative changes?

[edit: seriously, ayergo? You're well aware there are no models/appearances for mountable horses in NWN, yes? I have to say, if that's tongue-in-cheek sarcasm, I'm pretty short of patience for it these days.]

[Mikayla]

Wow, thats an amazing list. All other-things aside, thank you so much Acadius, for working so hard on so many things. From my perspective, it has really paid off - this first week of Live for ALFA2 has been nothing short of fantastic. I have been so impressed by so many things in game, its hard to know where to begin. From the server itself, to the DMing, to the PC Tools, to all the other little things behind the scenes - its been a monumental effort, and I am extremely grateful for it. Thanks you.

[indio]

Ya, it's important for people to have some perspective of the work done.

[Veilan]

Agreed. Paladin warhorse pls, thnx.

The inavailability of paladin war horses and other PnP class features was among the major reasons why reducing the paladin caster level to 1/2 per class level, as in PnP, did not happen.

We do take aspects all around into serious consideration. Of course, everyone will see something that "hurts" "their" character or build at some point, and I can certainly understand that people may narrowly focus only on what they perceive from their limited angle.

It is, however, not a good basis for educated debate, and certainly not an accurate reflection of our efforts to increase the fun and gameplay, for everyone, in the long run.

[ayergo]

Sorry if it wasn't clear. Was pointing out that it isn't easy to add stuff either.

Basically what i'm trying to say to folks who want something nerfed/added is:

Show me the code.

Its easy to sit and demand that things get nerfed or built but my opinion is all general griping one way or the other should be locked until someone ponies up and writes the thing or some basic starting point for it and evaluation. In the process of evaluation though, we need to keep in mind that its never going to be possible to micromanage everything into a tidy code package and somethings aren't worth it.

Obviously Acadius and co have done so, not directed at them.

Carry on.

[Joos]

Pretty much everywhere I've been involved with core systems, it's involved PnP-based Improvements on what we're offered by the game engine.

That list certainly puts things into perspective. Having seen it working in game too, makes it all the more impressive. Thanks guys!

[Vendrin]

I'm not trying to insult you or your work Acad, and sorry if it came across that way, but as you said yourself, those are core systems, not adjustments to the base classes.

Whenever we edit a class template, it is always ends up weaker, not stronger.

[ThinkTank]

[Mayhem]

BTW, vis the warlock, can I point out that Leaps and Bounds is pretty much their only "armour" spell, and whilst they can wear light armour as well, nobody freaks about clerics who get no end of buffs plus a shield and full-plate...

[JaydeMoon]

/me begins freaking about clerics who get no end of buffs plus a shield and full-plate.

Nerf plzkthxbuhbai

[Munmun]

The very idea of Warlock or Favored Soul being overpowered when we have cleric, a class that has been standard for a long time now is mind boggling.

A warlock has unlimited casts yes, but has absolutely zero versatility. They are the very definition of a one trick pony. You cannot fault them for doing that one trick well.

Favored Soul is a watered down cleric with spontaneous casting. They don't get domains, they don't get heavy armor. They do get weapon focus, high saves and weapon spec at the far off level of 12. They are still second-rate clerics and just buffbots. They lose a ton of versatility over a cleric and have crappy melee ability as well.

So can this get voted on already? I don't even want to play either of these classes but I want to get the discussion out of the way so we can move on to things that actually matter.

[JaydeMoon]

Watered down cleric?

Isn't a favored soul like... one step less than a Chosen of a particular deity?

[Munmun]

Watered down cleric?

Isn't a favored soul like... one step less than a Chosen of a particular deity?

I was talking game terms.

In roleplay terms.. a favored soul is a divine font for their deity's power. They might not know why and they might not even be chosen for it. Could be from having angelic blood from an ancestor or just born on the high holy day of a certain god. They are like warlocks in that regard except they get their powers from a specific god instead of roll the dice devil/fey/god/other.

That's not to say some favored souls are not chosen. But that is not the only way to be one.

[SwordSaintMusashi]

In flavor, yes, they are considered to be a beloved of their deity.

In practice, they are really are a sub-par class. The need to have two casting stats AND melee stats, combined with lack of domains, loss of heavy armor proficiency, and an obvious lack of versality make them anything but overpowered.

You play a Favored Soul for the flavor, not the stats.