Here we go again: Planetouched and the DM vote

[AcadiusLost]

I don't know about "solving"- but the way things are set up now, the level thresholds for LA PCs are the same as in the NWN2/MotB OC (which is to say, the level thresholds also from PnP).

This allows XP to be awarded in more or less the same manner between LA and non-LA PCs (DM's don't have to apply experience penalties on the fly when granting XP). The ACR's combat XP calculations take into account the effective level of a PC, versus the effective CR of the opponent, when determining combat XP. So, an LA PC with the same number of class levels will receive somewhat less XP than an non-LA PC defeating the same creature, all other things being equal. This work is already done (months ago) and seems to work well- it's a fairly minor issue in practice for LA PCs, since combat XP is only a small fraction of the XP earned by most characters in ALFA's style of PW play.

The "problem", as best I can tell, is that some of the potential LA-race players don't believe it is a "fair deal" for LA PCs to be stuck with only one class level until they reach 3,000, 6,000, or 10,000 XP. This is an understandable perspective, certainly- but this arrangement has a number of strong points: 1) It should hopefully counter most of the complaints from non-LA players with regard to LA-PCs ("free XP", "starting above level one", etc). 2) It is already implemented and working, testable on the Beta server currently. 3) It is supported well by the published ruleset, and not unfamiliar to players who have experience the NWN2 OC.

In any case, the LA question is not as significant for genasi/planetouched, as they are on the lower end of the ECL scale. As such, LA/ECL concerns shouldn't really enter into the considerations (except perhaps, to put the "advantage" of playing such a race into perspective- tends to be small compared to the benefits earlier leveling grant).

[Thangorn]

I am proposing that the LA implementation outlined by AL above be the basis for the plane-touched test. The beauty of doing a test means that we can actually see how it will work before we plaster it all over every server and potentially have to roll back.

[Mayhem]

Ha, funny Mayhem. Good joke. Solving the whole LA thing...

Well, the argument about whether or not we are going to include planetouched is pretty moot until we make a firm decision about LA, surely.

If we do go with the "out of the box" method, we need to be very sure that the LA characters are not being given bonus XP just to bump them out of the rut... especially in areas in which the entire party is LA.

[Thangorn]

If we do go with the "out of the box" method, we need to be very sure that the LA characters are not being given bonus XP just to bump them out of the rut... especially in areas in which the entire party is LA.

The ACR's combat XP calculations take into account the effective level of a PC, versus the effective CR of the opponent, when determining combat XP. So, an LA PC with the same number of class levels will receive somewhat less XP than an non-LA PC defeating the same creature, all other things being equal.

AL was referring to "out of the box" plus an ACR rationalisation for monster & static xp. It looks good and follows the KISS principle of which I am a fan..

[Inaubryn]

Yes, I'm going to cite another Exodus example. In Exodus we take separate apps for ECL races, which are approved and/or denied like regular apps. If a player is approved, the player can play the ECL race character. After they reach the halfway point between level 1 and level 2, we award them the rest of the xp to get to level 2. So, a tiefling would need to reach 1500 and then we'd award another 1500 to get the PC to level 2. A drow would need to reach 3000 and a smurf 5000, etc.

After level 2, the player and PC are on their own, earning xp regularly like other PCs. This way they still stay behind normal races in their progression. Exodus has very few ECL race players and ALFA will most likely wind up being the same. Humans will generally always be the most widely played race.

This is very simple, requires no programming, and accomplishes the dual task of keeping ECL races at a minimum and behind normal PC races in their progression.

It works and has been working for months now with absolutely no issues.

Edited: The bump from half way to level 2 to level 2 isn't RP dependent. If the app is accepted, it's all good from there.

[AcadiusLost]

After they reach the halfway point between level 1 and level 2, we award them the rest of the xp to get to level 2. So, a tiefling would need to reach 1500 and then we'd award another 1500 to get the PC to level 2. A drow would need to reach 3000 and a smurf 5000, etc.

In fairness, despite being active on the Exodus boards since before they went Live some months ago, this was the first I heard of this arrangement. Apparently there was some concern that too many people would want to play LA PCs if they knew about the "XP boost to 2nd" policy, so it wasn't posted about on the player forums over there. So, I wouldn't say it's something that's "tried and tested" in terms of being a satisfying solution for LA race and non-LA race players alike.

[Inaubryn]

Yeah, AL, that concern was voiced early on by a council member. But, in the end, we decided it wasn't an issue. That was back in September and we've had no issues to this point.

[danielmn]

I disagree Inaub....

you DO have issues.

[Inaubryn]

If you only knew, my boy.

[Marklos]

I would like to put my 2 cents in. I have read through some of the threads and have changed camps. While I am not familiar with PTs, I would like to advocate for player choice.

[Mayhem]

In other words, you give them free XP to bypass the initial level restiction?

What level will a human and a tiefling who have each *earned* 1500 xp be, under this system?

[Inaubryn]

Yes.

A human with 1500xp would be 2nd level having hit that mark at 1000xp and would need 1500xp more to reach 3rd.

A tiefling with 1500xp would be given an additional 1500xp moving them to second level at 3000xp. They would then require another 3000xp more in order to reach 3rd.


So, the human would have hit 2nd level 500xp ahead of the tiefling. And the tiefling would need twice the amount of experience to reach 3rd (3000) as would the human, dwarf, elf, etc.

[Mayhem]

But having earned 1500 xp, both are at second level and the planetouched still has its advantages, yes?

[Runestaff]

But having earned 1500 xp, both are at second level and the planetouched still has its advantages, yes?

Without commenting on the pros or cons of the system described, note that this only really equates to a means of escaping the level 1 jail earlier. Consider that to reach level 3, an unadjusted PC needs to earn 3000 xp, while the tiefling needs 4500 (+1500 bonus at level 1). The same reasoning applies to all higher levels. Hence the ECL+x races will always lag behind their "normal" counterparts, except at the lowest of levels.

Thus it seems the main hurdle some players have with this system is the philosophical one of "getting free xp." Practically, the ECL+x races still fall behind, as they should.

[JaydeMoon]

I have no philosophical issue with 'free xp'. I do have a philosophical issue with a group of players getting 'free xp' which is not available to another group of players.

My thoughts:

You want to play an LA or ECL race. Then deal with the drawbacks of playing it. Not one person minds that they are getting the 'bonuses' and abilities associated with the race. So why cry about the drawbacks and penalties? There are checks and balances.

You'll just have to play more carefully for longer.

In exchange, you get to play that really nifty race with the really nifty abilities.