Proposal for Xp awards for Bios, please give your thoughts

[Xanthea]

It's a perception thing. Just because you can't shoot fireballs out your butt (in game), does not mean that you can't enjoy the rp and low level goblin harassing adventures.

Some people enjoy high fantasy, other people enjoy rolling around in the mud poking goblins with sticks.

[Zelknolf]

Given that we now earn at most 1/3 of what we used to from mail/mushrooms/whatnot (at level 1, when I tested my high level [11] toon, she didn't earn any XP at all from content), I don't think anyone can argue that 250xp for a well-written bio is absurd.

A level 1 should never have more than a 5% reduction of XP gains from static XP-- and that should only apply if a quest is left at CR 0. You already reported mushrooms, which was a rounding error on many small rewards calculating their diminishing returns individually, which we fixed, and then promptly released.

If you have a level 1 performing any quest who is getting only one third of the quest's assigned XP, that should be reported. The only time you should see any reduced reward is if the builder has said that the quest is too easy even for a level 1, and then it should be very minor.

[Ronan]

There's a reason it's called Low Level Hell.

It's a perception thing.

Its not entirely. ALFA can only support (with static content especially) so much variety in PC power; far less than D&D allows. While I enjoy playing a level 1 PC too I do think ALFA needs to prioritize the levels it wants to support. If its not providing level 1s with enough fun things to do, letting them level up faster is one solution. I will always prefer lower-levels because they're easier to DM and provide content for.

Some people enjoy high fantasy, other people enjoy rolling around in the mud poking goblins with sticks.

High fantasy /= high level! Anyway 3.5 just does not scale well.

[Khazar Stoneblood]

I'll be honest... I hate level 1.

But I love levels 2-6.

Then it goes down hill after that.

Level 1 is just TOO fragile. Once you get to lvl 2 you reach the point where you can actually survive a mistake or bad die roll. Think about disarming a trap with a lvl 1 rogue... if you fail you take 6 points of damage... and die.

That not exactly an uber trap... but one bad die roll equals death.

The early levels are fun because of the risk. But at level 1... it's a bit too risky for enjoyment. At a certain point when you get to a high enough level the risk gets too low (not the DM'd times, just the regular server with no DM's. DM'd events are great at any level.)

I'll be honest, if I had my way I'd start at level 2 and advance at 1/4th the speed we currently do XP wise. Prolong the early level fun, but starting after the level 1 "omigod a rat I'm gonna die!" experience.

[Wild Wombat]

As somebody that puts alot of thought and effort into writing a bio for my PCs, it might surprise folks to read that I say NO.

My PC's bio is a starting point. It sets the stage for what comes next. It is the first step for me to get to know my new PC. But those experiences take place in my head, not in the Real (aka Virtual) world of ALFA. If a DM likes my bio, it means alot to me for them to say so, but I don't need the XP. Thanks anyway.

If this is a push to start PCs at level two *shrug* ... I'm all "whatever" about that, but if it got Grand Fromage and Fluffmonster back into playing, I'd be all for it. I got not problem with level one myself, mind you, but if starting at level 2 gets more great players in-game, do it.

[Regas]

My hope is that having the bio award will foster an investment in new pcs by players; allow for more interaction by by DMs with new pcs (who often do lack a bio for several levels); reward players for creativity; offset reductions in other sources of xp and help with the level one start, a bit- without doing away with a level one start. I think it's useful to remind folks that we're talking about 250 xp here.

250 xp is a couple hours of combat farming and statics or a dm session or a few days of rpxp. We already see pcs that make level one in a day or over the course of a couple of days. Remember too that some of our members play in excess of sixty hours a week- others (like me) struggle to find five hours a week to play. I'm not suggesting that 250 xp really addresses that but I don't think the wheels will come off the train allowing it either.

We give xp for all sorts of things but we are now dramatically reducing how much can be earned ig through combat and quests. That leaves dm sessions and rpxp- both of which significantly favor players that have lots of time to spend ig. I may be alone in this idea, but to me it seems sensible to allow a small award for something that may help the player invest and focus in their story and arm the dm teams with something useful with which to engage the pc. Is it really anathema to consider adding an additional, one time 250 xp as a reward for something creative and useful to our game?

[Swift]

*makes a puzzled face* Why would you want to do this? I vote no, as if that made any difference.

Teric, thanks for your feedback. Can you elaborate on your thoughts and concerns?

I suppose it boils down to, "since when do we give in-game rewards for out-of-game actions?".

The road to level 2 has never been easier, or safer that it is now.

All of this.

I think it's useful to remind folks that we're talking about 250 xp here.

I think it is also worth reminding people that 250xp is 25% of your first level.

250 xp is a couple hours of combat farming and statics or a dm session or a few days of rpxp. We already see pcs that make level one in a day or over the course of a couple of days. Remember too that some of our members play in excess of sixty hours a week- others (like me) struggle to find five hours a week to play. I'm not suggesting that 250 xp really addresses that but I don't think the wheels will come off the train allowing it either.

So if people can get it so easily, why do we need to make it free?

We give xp for all sorts of things but we are now dramatically reducing how much can be earned ig through combat and quests.

Uhh

A level 1 should never have more than a 5% reduction of XP gains from static XP-- and that should only apply if a quest is left at CR 0.

That is dramatic? Additionally, combat XP has always been utter rubbish, so claiming we need to compensate for lost combat XP is just silly.

That leaves dm sessions and rpxp- both of which significantly favor players that have lots of time to spend ig. I may be alone in this idea, but to me it seems sensible to allow a small award for something that may help the player invest and focus in their story and arm the dm teams with something useful with which to engage the pc. Is it really anathema to consider adding an additional, one time 250 xp as a reward for something creative and useful to our game?

Its a Pandoras box. The only other out of game action that I know of getting rewarded with in game XP is stories in the Library and that is entirely based on individual DMs. It is not a common thing. I would argue that every single other out of game action taken to keep this game running has more impact on our game than a level 1 characters bio. Everything. The hosting, the module maintainers, the builders, the tech team, the Admin, the forum moderators, all of them do more to keep our game going and our community from completely tearing itself apart than a level 1 character bio does. All that not having a bio ensures is that any DMing interaction you get will be a little more generic and likely to involve more exploratory dialogue ("Where did you say you were from again? That accent is mighty strange to my ears.").

Giving people 25% of their first level just for making a character is...well...I am not going to say it destroys the the Level 1 rule, but with how easy it is to breeze past first level already (which you yourself admit) you might as well get rid of it in the first place (something I am sure some at the least are all for, while I shudder at the thought).

[gonz.0]

My hope is that having the bio award will foster an investment in new pcs by players; allow for more interaction by by DMs with new pcs (who often do lack a bio for several levels); reward players for creativity; offset reductions in other sources of xp and help with the level one start, a bit- without doing away with a level one start. I think it's useful to remind folks that we're talking about 250 xp here.

I know I have discussed this idea in IRC with at least a few people, and I think it is a good one.

Personally, I do not write a bio for a level 1 character. I begin at level 2 because rarely have I even made all my decisions at level 1, ie multi-classing etc, you are a stubbed toe from dying, and much of a character's real personality, and history comes from RP the initial meeting rp especially. Character development and brainstorming quick answers to questions you might not think about when just writing a bio. I try to have it finished by the time my pc is graduating to level 3.

If however, there was a reward that could help push the character in to survivor 2nd level, I should think that would be inspiration in deed to work on it earlier. If that helps the DMs to be able to deal with a character better, it seems everyone wins.

I'm for the idea, even if set up with dimret.

[FoamBats4All]

I am not going to say it destroys the Level 1 Start pillar

http://www.alandfaraway.org/node/467

[Swift]

I am not going to say it destroys the Level 1 Start pillar

http://www.alandfaraway.org/node/467

Nitpicking at its finest there, though I stand corrected and have edited my post appropriately.

[Castano]

The road to level 2 has never been easier, or safer that it is now.

Incorrect. It was a lot easier a month ago than it is now. The diminishing returns even makes it harder for a level 1 to level up.

How on earth do they do that? There are no dimrets for level 1's they only kick in after you start to level past the CR of the quest.

[Castano]

Swift, a bio is more akin to a story than mod hosting. Since you state that we already award XP for Library stories, which sounds very OOC to me and reliant on a player's writing skills, I'm seriously considering awarding it for bios as a DM on MS. So send your bios my way people.

[Khazar Stoneblood]

The road to level 2 has never been easier, or safer that it is now.

Incorrect. It was a lot easier a month ago than it is now. The diminishing returns even makes it harder for a level 1 to level up.

How on earth do they do that? There are no dimrets for level 1's they only kick in after you start to level past the CR of the quest.

What are we talking about with dimrets? I noticed that some repeatable quests had less XP reward after a couple repititions at level 1 on WH ... but I assumed there was a (very reasonable) diminished return on doing the same thing multiple times in terms of what you learn. I assume that's something different then the level based diminished return? Because if not, there's much more then a 5% dip I think (not that I think it's a bad thing... the diminishing of those seemed very reasonable to me).

And I want to make clear that I'm not advocating for starting at level 2. I'm just saying I personally don't enjoy playing level 1 all that much. It's more something I have to get past in order to get to the game at levels 2-6 that is the sweet spot for me.

[Veilan]

Writing a bio is already rewarded and incentivised. DMs are more likely to involve characters they know how to hook, and self-expression is a basic human need, especially manifest in roleplayers. Are there many players without one?

I suppose it boils down to, "since when do we give in-game rewards for out-of-game actions?".

This. Writing a bio carries no risk whatsoever, is primarily an exercise in masturbation that adds very limited in-game entertainment for other players (as opposed to telling your bio in-character and in-game), and, finally, is fully within the narrative control of the author.

Neither of these things merit a further reward above what a bio already achieves.

Only reason I could rationally think of would be a desire to eliminate level 1 I guess, but if that were the case, we'd surely be discussing that directly in an open and honest fashion.

Cheers,

[Swift]

Swift, a bio is more akin to a story than mod hosting. Since you state that we already award XP for Library stories, which sounds very OOC to me and reliant on a player's writing skills, I'm seriously considering awarding it for bios as a DM on MS. So send your bios my way people.

It is a stretch to say we have it. If a DM reads a story, likes it and decides to give XP, then the author is lucky. It is not even remotely close to being the norm.

And while yes, a bio is far closer to a story than hosting a mod, the point I was trying to make that you totally missed is that we do not reward any other OOC contributions to this community with in game advancement, so bios should be no different, otherwise you open the door.