Poll on Keeping 1 pc rule

[kid]

In your own words...

How?

Evidence #1: you are not playing a noob with your friends even tho it would be more fun for all and holding on to syl to not loose her.
Evidence #2: i've temped Keren. if in the next two month someone comes up with an awesome idea about a high level TSM political adventure (yeah right... ) I wiil not be able to take part.

anyway... as I said i voted for one. But if we truly trust each other, 2 is not nesseraly a bad idea. (if certain guidlines are kept bla bla)

[Veilan]

2 is not nesseraly a bad idea.

I agree, hence why I started a vote on it when I was LA - but I think the main reasons given by proponents are not the reasons that make this worthwhile to consider. And also are dangerously leading away from a necessary, thorough look at how to mitigate the drawbacks and risks.

I'm still unsure it will have a lasting effect past the initial jolt, but perhaps that jolt may be enough to provide critical mass.

Cheers,

[Adanu]

Two PCs would make me have a lot more fun, and might bring more people back with the attitude of 'if my first PC gets boring, I can always try this one.'

The point of this game is to have fun, RPing, combat, or doing whatever it is you do DMing. Some things just don't need to be rules lawyered too much to make sense.

More options is good for the most part.

[Ronan]

It would help if the opponents of the 2-PC proposal could be concise and specific about what they believe the negative effects of such a change would be.

In another thread, I posted what I believe are the barriers to player-player and player-DM coordination:

• Geographics 1
• Miscellaneous IC factors (alignment, deity, allegiances, etc.) 1 3
• Levels/power 1 2
• Timezones
• Miscellaneous OOC factors (cliques, feuds, etc) 3
• Playstyles 1 3

1 Is mitigated by allowing multiple PCs.
2 Is mitigated by a level cap.
3 Are often of lesser importance when a DM starts running something.

Without plots, all static content ultimately goes stale and PCs stop having anything to RP about. I believe the key to ALFA's long-term success is attracting and maintaining good DMs. I'm not sure how much increasing player density would help here. Probably by virtue of being on BG, I typically have more players and player requests than I can handle, but I realize this isn't true of everyone.

In some cases increasing PC density would help me, as I sometimes find myself DMing 2-3 PCs where I could be DMing 5-6, if only there were more PCs compatible with the party and plot. I would guestimate I could DM 25% more player-hours if those free slots were filled.

[oldgrayrogue]

I'd venture that most of the opposition to 2 PCs is based on nostalgia about "what it means to be ALFA" and fears of metagaming and other meta abuses like muling, twinking etc.

For others, there is a belief that 2 PCs can "soften" our RP because we do not intensely focus on the story of just 1 character. In short, when playing multiple PCs you are not as "invested" in either, and as a result immersion and the story suffers. I can see this point of view, but don't think it is necessarily true. An author who writes a novel can create a number of compelling characters at the same time. Our DMs do this with NPCs effectively. There is no reason to think the group of talented RPers that make up our player base can't manage to fully immerse in more that one PC story at a time IMO.

So what it comes back to, at least in my opinion, is nostalgia and fear of metagaming. If I am wrong on this maybe some of those who voted no can state the reasons why so the rest of us can understand, and maybe even agree with you.

For me, I like 2 PCs simply because I like to play multiple and diverse concepts. Sometimes I feel like "being" a burly fighter and others a slick rogue, or wizard or what have you. I think for other ALFAns the appeal of 2 PCs is that it lets them keep that treasured high level PC to play when they feel like it but also try other concepts. This could also have the effect of slowing the level spread. If high level PCs are not played as much in favor of "alts" there should be less of a spread. Players may be willing to take more risk with their alts too, and not let OOC concerns about "losing" a high level and favorite PC soften their RP which I think happens quite often in ALFA. So two PCs might actually make our RP more "hardcore," at least when alts are played. Temp Retirement does not acheive the same thing because it prevents players from RPing their "favorite" when they want to. I would love to see people permanently retire or NPC their higher level PCs more, simply because it leads to new and more diverse personalities and story being created all the time. It keeps things "fresh" so the speak. But I know when I voice such things people think I'm just a high level hater.

[maxcell]

Well the biggest opposition point in my mind is human nature. It is easy to say now that people won't meta with the other character, or create one toon to be a crafter/wealth builder toon for their other toon, or direct in game actions to benefit their other character in any way. But if one is honest, they know this will happen.

"but we will have rules to keep that from happening"

I am sure we will at the start....
Then an offense will be reported...
Then an offense will be reported after the fact...
Then an offense will be discovered as happening weeks ago when a new Admin takes it on themselves to pour over logs in their leisure time.
It will be then that new cries about "too many rules make me sad, boo hoo " will erupt from the same people who cry it now. There will be a push for allowing all of

meta with the other character, or create one toon to be a crafter/wealth builder toon for their other toon, or direct in game actions to benefit their other character in any way.

to happen because we just don't have that many people here, so it should be allowed to make it funner for the "me" crowd.

You will not bring anyone back that way. Nor will you attract anyone new because they will already be playing on a server now that gives them interaction like that.

The pillars are what makes Alfa different. It isn't for everyone. It isn't supposed to be for everyone. It is supposed to be for a select crowd. Hell I don't even want half of you here that are here now. (Heero I am mostly talking to you)

[Xanthea]

So if two PCs happens does that mean ALFA isn't supposed to be for the people who oppose that any more?

[Adanu]

Well the biggest opposition point in my mind is human nature. It is easy to say now that people won't meta with the other character, or create one toon to be a crafter/wealth builder toon for their other toon, or direct in game actions to benefit their other character in any way. But if one is honest, they know this will happen.

"but we will have rules to keep that from happening"

I am sure we will at the start....
Then an offense will be reported...
Then an offense will be reported after the fact...
Then an offense will be discovered as happening weeks ago when a new Admin takes it on themselves to pour over logs in their leisure time.
It will be then that new cries about "too many rules make me sad, boo hoo " will erupt from the same people who cry it now. There will be a push for allowing all of

meta with the other character, or create one toon to be a crafter/wealth builder toon for their other toon, or direct in game actions to benefit their other character in any way.

to happen because we just don't have that many people here, so it should be allowed to make it funner for the "me" crowd.

You will not bring anyone back that way. Nor will you attract anyone new because they will already be playing on a server now that gives them interaction like that.

The pillars are what makes Alfa different. It isn't for everyone. It isn't supposed to be for everyone. It is supposed to be for a select crowd. Hell I don't even want half of you here that are here now. (Heero I am mostly talking to you)

A fallacy. We should do nothing because obviously ALFA should never ever evolve to fit it's situation?

[t-ice]

It is easy to say now that people won't meta with the other character, or create one toon to be a crafter/wealth builder toon for their other toon, or direct in game actions to benefit their other character in any way. But if one is honest, they know this will happen.

The pillars are what makes Alfa different. It isn't for everyone. It isn't supposed to be for everyone. It is supposed to be for a select crowd.

Isn't it curious that you're saying that ALFA is supposed to be for a select elite bunch of RPers, and at the same time you assume that this elite bunch will gleefully jump to metagaming and breaking "your PCs must not interact" rules the first chance they get.

We trust our DMs to not metagame and let them play, too, don't we? Now compare the potential for abuse there is between DMing and playing 2 PCs.

[paazin]

Isn't it curious that you're saying that ALFA is supposed to be for a select elite bunch of RPers, and at the same time you assume that this elite bunch will gleefully jump to metagaming and breaking "your PCs must not interact" rules the first chance they get.

We trust our DMs to not metagame and let them play, too, don't we? Now compare the potential for abuse there is between DMing and playing 2 PCs.

Sad truth is he states as much because it's not really all that uncommon. And let's be frank here, we're not some 'super elite group'; it's a pretty good RP circle but hardly like the platonic ideal

[Swift]

and might bring more people back with the attitude of 'if my first PC gets boring, I can always try this one.'

So...people who do not currently play in ALFA are going to return because their main character (which they do not have, because they aren't playing) can be set aside if it gets boring while they start up a second? This is the kind of logic that baffles me and you are not the only one to have stated it, so at least try not to think I am taking a stab at you. Players that come to ALFA by and large buy into the One PC deal. Its a big deal. We have made a big deal about it and it have been one of the biggest points that has set us apart from other communities. I highly doubt we have lost many players purely because they were stuck with a single character. It may contribute, sure, but I would bet cash monies it has not yet been the main reason someone has left.

There are far, far more issues bigger than the one PC rule that have driven numerous members away from ALFA. Fixing those reasons (whatever they may be) is what might bring players back. This will just ensure that current members with lots of time to play can keep it fresh while those that don't can try something new without having to hang up the boots of their main.

Sad truth is he states as much because it's not really all that uncommon.

I won't go so far as to say it is hideously common, but yeah, it is far more common than some would like to believe.

[t-ice]

So...people who do not currently play in ALFA are going to return because their main character (which they do not have, because they aren't playing) can be set aside if it gets boring while they start up a second? This is the kind of logic that baffles me

Well yes, that logic probably isn't sound, but from the pov of someone about to roll with a new PC, it should be appealing to know there's a good chance that any veteran player he meets IG has a low level alt that can game with the new PC.

HC gamers with 20 hours or more to devote a week probably won't care much, with a bit of motivation and dedication they can grind ALFA to quickly get their PC to relevant levels (~5). (Though it isn't given such a newcomer would care to overcome the "getting started" barrier at ALFA, since he hasn't been shown the "real ALFA" behind the grind.) But for the part of us who used to play lots but now have all the time-consuming RL things of being of more mature and adult age, and can maybe devote one night every couple of weeks...

[Adanu]

and might bring more people back with the attitude of 'if my first PC gets boring, I can always try this one.'

So...people who do not currently play in ALFA are going to return because their main character (which they do not have, because they aren't playing) can be set aside if it gets boring while they start up a second? This is the kind of logic that baffles me and you are not the only one to have stated it, so at least try not to think I am taking a stab at you. Players that come to ALFA by and large buy into the One PC deal. Its a big deal. We have made a big deal about it and it have been one of the biggest points that has set us apart from other communities. I highly doubt we have lost many players purely because they were stuck with a single character. It may contribute, sure, but I would bet cash monies it has not yet been the main reason someone has left.

There are far, far more issues bigger than the one PC rule that have driven numerous members away from ALFA. Fixing those reasons (whatever they may be) is what might bring players back. This will just ensure that current members with lots of time to play can keep it fresh while those that don't can try something new without having to hang up the boots of their main.

Sad truth is he states as much because it's not really all that uncommon.

I won't go so far as to say it is hideously common, but yeah, it is far more common than some would like to believe.

I've never said it was the only reason, I said it is most likely a reason and incentive to play more. There are those who prefer one PC... and then there are those -like me- who prefer two PCs because sometimes playing one PC all the time gets boring and can burn out easily.

[maxcell]

Isn't it curious that you're saying that ALFA is supposed to be for a select elite bunch of RPers, and at the same time you assume that this elite bunch will gleefully jump to metagaming and breaking "your PCs must not interact" rules the first chance they get.

We trust our DMs to not metagame and let them play, too, don't we? Now compare the potential for abuse there is between DMing and playing 2 PCs.

I hear you T, and if there were a way (as I was warned to stop doing) to state it as two groups within the current populace without sounding like I was doing that, I would have. It certainly isn't everyone. But it is there, repeatedly, by the same ones.

Also do we want to add additional policing duties to people willing to DM? Isn't their main job to just DM? Wouldn't the game be more fun for them, if they didn't have to spy on people to make sure they are behaving?

Ah, I've said my piece. Perhaps it was enough to push this thread to 10+ like I did the other one, we will have to wait and see.

[t-ice]

I hear you T, and if there were a way (as I was warned to stop doing) to state it as two groups within the current populace without sounding like I was doing that, I would have.

I suppose ALFA is by design always more vulnerable to such splitups due to the (more) democratic core foundation. As opposed to a owner/creator, or small circle thereof, ruling by fiat. I'd like to think all the voting leads to more dynamic and enduring community in the long run though, but it's certainly not a given. Especially not now when the aggregate energy and comitment of the community seems on the wane. You just have to hope that most members won't run off when they disagree with the majority on a matter.