How to bring back the people?

[Adanu]

Twice a month, Scheduled Campaign nights required from each DM.

Invite your real life friends just like a PnP game.

Two nights a month.

Honoring your appointment with the players.

AND allowing a looser interpretation of time so people can attend up to four sessions a month w/ attention to the roleplay viability

OR

have a second character on that other server they can participate with thus dealing with worries of too fast leveling.

Alfa needs to leave this persistent world crap behind them and function as an interface for playing dungeonmastered games of D&D online.

Persistent worlds are a joke now:
*you can't fly, jump, or climb
*Enviroments have walkmesh cutters that prevent any effortless movement and often logical escapes
*ATs are in one tiny often hidden spots thus preventing natural travel along the grid
*The UI connection with the server is as slow or fast as your computer and the servers. Thus making lag kill players
*Un-dmd survival is based on how good a player is at pushing buttons and how fast their internet relay is back and forth
*Creative canon options for dealing with life-threatening issues are NULL in solo play
*And due to people farming the hells out of mobs the return on combat/farming of "monsters" is so lowered to so little it simply is insane that anyone would waste so much solo time pounding away at 1xp trash mobs in an environment made for ROLEPLAYING and playing campaign D&D.

Maybe we should consider moving over to something like:

http://roll20.net/

and then focusing on campaigns as Cloud suggests? anyone that fancies DMing can create a campaign, we just setup forums and go from there?

Rather than outright replacing NWN2, it might not be a terrible option as an addition that we could officially support?

I was wondering when something like that would come along. It was kickstarter funded too... I am SO glad kickstarter is around.

I'd say that as an addition would probably be good.

[Castano]

1 PC per server.

Less irc, more playing.

[Galadorn]

Disable Chat completely.

Bet ya two bits and a hair cut ALFA PC numbers online would double overnight.

Too many emo lurkers claiming they hate ALFA, but spend YEARS in chat complaining and being... lurkers.

If ya can't be without ALFA... get out of chat and PLAY the game. Bet you'll like it.

This is about D&D. Not bitching in a chatroom about how bad ALFA is when you don't even play the game. Who gives a rats ass how long you've been "A part of ALFA"... first logging into the forum 10 years ago don't mean shit if in total you've probably only played a few months or a year or so ..... and only THEN when populations were SUPER high and you had a few emo-lifers around in the same time zone as you, and the game WAS good. Those specific days ARE over...

...get over it, get back IN GAME NOW and play...



I love this game!

[kid]

where the hell is Bu hiding?

[Adanu]

The problem is not irc galadorn. If people don't have irc, they'd just use the forum.

[oldgrayrogue]

One word: Randomness.

When static content is more random it is more unpredictible, more realistic and more immersive. DMs acheive this because they have brains. Its fun. We should try to make things more random when DMs are not around.

I also think there should be more reward for risk. But I mean real risk, as in risk of (perma)death which so many ALFAns seem to be terrified of because they are hopelessly in love with their own PC creations. So in a sense I agree with Adanu and disagree at the same time. Early levels should be fairly easy and I think they already are. But higher levels should get progressively harder and then you die -- hopefully gloriously or in infamy, but above all memorably. This template gives PC stories time to develop, and then end with meaning, so a new story can start the process over.

[maxcell]

Twice a month, Scheduled Campaign nights required from each DM.

Invite your real life friends just like a PnP game.

Two nights a month.

Honoring your appointment with the players.

AND allowing a looser interpretation of time so people can attend up to four sessions a month w/ attention to the roleplay viability

OR

have a second character on that other server they can participate with thus dealing with worries of too fast leveling.

Alfa needs to leave this persistent world crap behind them and function as an interface for playing dungeonmastered games of D&D online.

Persistent worlds are a joke now:
*you can't fly, jump, or climb
*Enviroments have walkmesh cutters that prevent any effortless movement and often logical escapes
*ATs are in one tiny often hidden spots thus preventing natural travel along the grid
*The UI connection with the server is as slow or fast as your computer and the servers. Thus making lag kill players
*Un-dmd survival is based on how good a player is at pushing buttons and how fast their internet relay is back and forth
*Creative canon options for dealing with life-threatening issues are NULL in solo play
*And due to people farming the hells out of mobs the return on combat/farming of "monsters" is so lowered to so little it simply is insane that anyone would waste so much solo time pounding away at 1xp trash mobs in an environment made for ROLEPLAYING and playing campaign D&D.

Maybe we should consider moving over to something like:

http://roll20.net/

and then focusing on campaigns as Cloud suggests? anyone that fancies DMing can create a campaign, we just setup forums and go from there?

Rather than outright replacing NWN2, it might not be a terrible option as an addition that we could officially support?

I was wondering when something like that would come along. It was kickstarter funded too... I am SO glad kickstarter is around.

I'd say that as an addition would probably be good.

I am in agreement with Adanu. It is one of the signs of the apocalypse.

[Ithildur]

While various online platforms for playing actual PnP DnD are intriguing and can be fun (grr... I really can't afford to get sucked away from RL right now and I see this! I will intentionally CvC pwn you all if I do play in such a game and prematurely end that campaign! ), this doesn't help address the OP's question... (it'll probably detract if anything; we only have so much free time to budget towards gaming stuffs).

But then neither does #3 on his post imo.

[Blindhamsterman]

It depends on what you decide to describe ALFA as.

is it a NWN2 persistant world? Or is it a community of role players that want to create a pnp experience with friends over the internet?

if the former, then something like role20 clearly isn't a good idea, if it's the latter, then perhaps a way to manage it would be:

Still have something akin to a DM app process, someone creates some DM accounts and they're used specifically to create a pnp setting for a campaign? No idea as I've not really thought much on the suggestion beyond 'Hey, if people wanted to create a pnp campaign, we could use this tool to do so!'

but theoretically it could be done in such a way that we still have character Bios and at times a character might leave a campaign and join another. The only real requirement there would be that Character sheets are documented somewhere and that ALFA agree upon a set of sources we'd use. Probably akin to what my pnp group use for our FR campaign: Core Books plus any FR splat books, nothing else.

The main thing I see as a possible 'issue' with roll20 is that it WOULD require people take the time to 'build' the campaigns areas, which in some ways is no worse than now, and is actually probably easier, but it's still a potentially large task.

Then again, much like the suggested idea of a formal place that all created characters are kept, there could be a similar bank for all maps created (take a screenshot of the map, save it, upload it to a thread here for example)

anyway, don't mind me, i'm just thinking 'out loud'

[Ithildur]

It's a great idea if we're looking to simply get more FR/DnD RP regardless of platform, yeah (which was admittedly ALFA's original vision more or less, not necessarily another big NWN Persistent World) ... and perhaps in days of yore when this project was crawling with energetic folks who had time and energy to both log into NWN servers regularly to DM/play AND do other forms of RP (including forum posts, which I hope still continue on). But the OP's (and sounds like others' too from various other threads I've seen) question I'm guessing refers specifically to people logging into ALFA's NWN2 servers. In that sense other alternative platforms, while not necessarily evil or shun worthy (a nice break can do wonders for any time consuming hobby), don't ultimately bring a solution to the above.

I've not been around much the past few months so take this with a grain of salt, but imo, isn't this what would really bring many if not most of us back (other than stuff outside our control such as RL busy-ness and such)?

... help bring back the days this place crawled with storytelling DM's who were legends that were greatly loved, respected, and feared for all the right reasons (most of them anyway) - that should be a powerful motivator for people to want to DM in ALFA btw, having people truly enjoying and appreciating what you're bringing to the table of intense, immersive, engaging collective storytelling ("Wow, another INTENSE session by Viigas today..." "Ronan murdered my PC and it was EPIC" "Twisted made my PC cry today, I hate him!" "Damn OGR made us wait a month to finish this plot but it was SO worth it!" etc). Loot and xp is nice, but it's all dust in the wind without the story - that's ALFA.

[Adanu]

I also think there should be more reward for risk. But I mean real risk, as in risk of (perma)death which so many ALFAns seem to be terrified of because they are hopelessly in love with their own PC creations. So in a sense I agree with Adanu and disagree at the same time. Early levels should be fairly easy and I think they already are. But higher levels should get progressively harder and then you die -- hopefully gloriously or in infamy, but above all memorably. This template gives PC stories time to develop, and then end with meaning, so a new story can start the process over.

Plenty of possible permadeath going on still, the difference is that people are a LOT more cautious about their PCs nowadays. Personally, I love playing Zyrus and I hope to keep him for a while still. If he dies, it'll be because of bad luck with the die. I've had more than enough of my share of DMs seemingly out to get me (not here, but elsewhere), and I never like it. Campaigns should be about good stories, not about grinding PCs down to a pulp.

Anyway, once I explore WHL, I may consider DMing there.

[Galadorn]

where the hell is Bu hiding?

Right.......BEHIND YOU!


1 word: Treeshape

He was bustin' a trail carryin' some mail the other day. Might hit TSM. Might hit MS.

"There's a voice, that keeps on callin' me... down the road, that's where i'll aaaaalways be..."

The problem is not irc galadorn. If people don't have irc, they'd just use the forum.

People already use the forum.
But on the forum, you post and send... Not too long a term consistant focus.

on IRC, MANY just sit there, argue, bitch, whine, etc, and literally STAY actively doing the above for hours. Even if it was ONE hour, that's 1 hour all them could have been on a server meeting up to play.
Most will say they're at work, can't play, but can access IRC. But many won't admit it's also not that way. IRC is a evil den of scum and villainy! Breeds meta like a festering plague as well, which is WAY worse than even not playing. And i'm not upset anywhere near you'd assume I am. Just sayin'...

IRC is so very much a problem. Like I said, if it was GONE. There'd be double the presence on servers. Garanteed.

Test it out!

[Sidhe]

I agree with Adanu. The problem with ALFA is ALFA.

I hear allot saying that bringing back the DM’s will inject life into the servers. I agree, and from my experience consistent, regular DM coverage will bring people.
Let me offer my thoughts on what it’s like to DM in ALFA, take it for what you will;

1. Restrictions;
- ALFA tells me how much exp I am to award. But aren’t I the DM given the responsibility by my peers? I am the creator of the story and know the players and challenges intimately right? Wrong. I am nothing but a delivery vessel for a set of predefined systems that do not take into account any variable at all.
- I can, as a DM, create the reward for my campaign right? Wrong. I am bound by another system that goes beyond peer review and campaign circumstances (like in any PnP game), and in some instances reference material itself. But all I want is a Ring of A with B on it? Can’t have A without B and that will lead to C which turns into 3 x C*300gp(G^7 x 0.3) which places it over the PC’s level by 12% so you can’t give it anyway.....
- My creativity is stifled by blanket systems that lead to blanket responses and a lack of individuality. Can’t do that because it violates X lawyer-riffic rule which has no practical bearing on me or my players at all. Even if X was within the vast set of rules it is frowned upon because it is outside of B admins field of vision and he will not like it.
- Continually having to fight to try and maintain the spirit of what DnD, not the “ALFA pillars”, is.

2. Players;
- Some ALFAn’s are complete and utter b*tches. “Waaa. . .That monster was too hard/easy/gave to little/too much loot, not what I was expecting, didn’t do what I wanted it to do, why do I have to roll, why did I only get X exp, I want more exp, I want this instead, can we run session earlier/later/longer/shorter, can I do a static first, you hate me/i hate myself, i am tired/have issues/cant game/am going to complain, I am dropping the campaign if you don’t give me a single player game/let me retcon/roll again/customise loot, i don’t play with that guy/those guys/that person in RL is a f*ckwit, you give more time to X/my enemies/my dog, my ultimate ambitions are not progressing fast enough.” What happened to just liking ANY DM attention?
- Continually having to tell players that I cant accommodate their perfectly reasonable request/issue because of X laywer-riffic rule or because of B admins tunnel vision.
- Having to shield players from meta-gamers, and continually try and stay ahead of both the B game and meta game.

3. B-Game;
- More people seem interested in this than playing DnD?
- Being exposed to crazy, unhealthy behaviour.
- Having a game directed(?) by a loud minority(?) that don’t even play

Yes im jaded. Yes i am burnt out. I took on and tried to reach out and touch everyone. Until very recently I didn’t turn any character away from a quest I was running, no matter how tenuous the link or lack-there-of. I have abandoned my player ‘group’. I have left quests unfinished with quite a few people.

T and myself were able to maintain a server for 3+ years with no tech support and little building and get numbers that were greater than ALFA (indeed many ALFAns played there instead of here at one point) without any trouble. A year and 200+ individual DM sessions (god knows how many hours that equals) here and I have had a gut of it.
I have had some great times here and players PM me asking for quest continuations, if im coming back etc but until I see a difference in ALFA that is not likely to happen.

TL;DR
Reduce number of rules. Replace with common sense and peer review
Remove number of 'processes'. Do not replace with anything
Remove static admin. Replace with people that are intouch with the game
Review "ALFA pillars". Replace with community wants and needs (multiple PC's, risk/reward etc)
Do not listen to 'has beens'. Listen to people that have played the game recently.
I am a disgruntled lurker now.

Feel free to disregard/sweep this under the rug.

[Ronan]

Reduce number of rules. Replace with common sense and peer review
Remove number of 'processes'. Do not replace with anything

This was NWN1 ALFA. Rewards were chaos and all over the place, with a PC's power depending largely on who they were DMed by. The same risk/reward with one DM might be worth 5x as much from another. Maybe we over-reacted, but some sort of standards were needed.

You recognize that complaining burns out DMs. Most DMs are very busy while they're DMing, and often must cater to even invalid complaints in order to keep things moving for everyone else or to simply get a player off their back. Thus complaining is often a very effective way for players to get what they want, and so we get harmful prisoner's dilemmas. I'm not sure how to resolve this, short of sticking closer to the rules and thus keeping as much out of the hands of the DM as possible, but that has other drawbacks.

The above of course applies to all sorts of contributors, not just DMs.

Of course, many (probably most) complaints are also valid in some way; I was not trying to suggest the above was caused by rampant dishonesty. However builders and DMs simply cannot be 100% fair even if they had the time and resources to be, and a poorly-received complaint is harmful to contributor motivation regardless of its truthfulness. I see no mechanism where harm (or help) of contributor motivation is internalized by those who affect that motivation.

Based on my experiences, I'd suggest greater rewards for pro-social behavior. ALFA's largest XP sources provide just as well (and sometimes better, in the case of RP XP) when alone as in a group. In contrast to RL, this creates an environment where people do not have to get along to get ahead. As a result I don't think they're nearly as incentivized to be nice to each other as they otherwise would be.

[Castano]

Ronan is so much smarter than everyone here. You hit the nail on the head after 5 months of threads.

Get rid of any XP earned while solo. That is what I would do if I had fiat. Force group play or GTFO.