Struggling with a "religous" PC

[Ithildur]

Clerics actively promote their faith's teachings/dogma, even if they don't go around 'preaching' on street corners or publicly, etc. Clerics of Shar certainly would be doing much public preaching... but they'd definitely be very actively promoting Shar's agenda in other ways. I think that's the most important thing.


St. Francis supposedly once said: "Preach the good news always; use words when necessary." or something like that.

[Dorn]

Yea sorry didn't mean that they need to be on he pulpit/soapbox...I just meant I think a cleric has a higher burden of 'work' than just a devout (enter class). Irh explained it better. But then again it's personal interpretation.

Now, should we discuss charisma and leadership?

[Thangorn]

Talosian priests for example i've tried to find a way of playing true to the dogma and description of those rare priests/stormlords without having the PC hunted down and killed or locked up for destroying peoples stuff

Good people (merchant caravans, sailors, etc.) give donations/offerings to the church of Talos to hopefully keep his eye off their endeavours, while accepting that he is a very real force. People don't want to piss him off, think "god-fearing".

To the clergy, Talos is actually part of a natural cycle, he is a vengeful and unfair god but that is his role in the great balancing act. Can you ever truly feel alive if it there isn't some overwhelming force that could sweep it all away in an instant? How can you truly know what compassion and fairness is, if you do not also accept that polar opposition exists?

Just ideas to illustrate my point:

I guess my way of playing priests is a continuous journey of questioning, expressing and exploring their dogma. You don't start out as a religious authority, you are a (level 1) acolyte exploring a faith you hold dearly and live with it as best you can. Your faith will be challenged by every day life, that's the point. You live with it to become closer to your god, if your expression of your character is not bringing you closer to a spiritual understanding, perhaps you then take levels in another class? or renounce your faith?
That's the best thing about playing priests as it is a spiritual journey not a destination.

[fluffmonster]

Its important to remember that evangelism as we know it is mostly a feature of Abrahamic religions practiced by Christians and Muslims. Most of the religions in our own world don't work that way, and in some conversion and spreading the faith is not possible at all. Conversion doesn't even have that much meaning in FR; in our world, it means rejecting one canon in favor of another, but in a world where all gods are accepted as real and people offer prayers to many gods including their patron "switching faiths" is not at all what it is in our world. What passes for religion in the Christian or Islamic worlds would be labeled extreme zealotry in FR.

The role of the cleric is in general to make known the influence of their god on the world. To the extent they solicit anything on behalf of their god as a rule, it is respect for the divine influence of their patron diety.

[t-ice]

Well said, fluff.
"Religious" in the RL context means (at least to me) accepting a certain view of the world and people on faith, as a given. And in most religions the world view comes with a set of instructions on how people should act. In FR there is no doubt on what is the true world view, the gods are for all purposes known to be true. So there is no "faith" in this sense.

Being "faithful" thus is less about believing, but about acting and speaking in favor of the dogma and/or name of your god, which is a subset of the "known truth".

You could be a "football club supporter" kind of religious, wearing your god's colors and chanting her name and how your god is better than the next one. You don't doubt the other gods, or their followers, exist, but you're rooting exclusively for yours.

Or you could be a more subdued, methodology based "faithful", in that your work spreads your patron's domain in itself. Presumably this would affect your view of the world in big ways. It's the prism through which you see the world. For example:

• A police officer would see the world as cops and robbers. He would be a "religious" Helmite.
• A lawyer would see the world in terms of laws and contracts, evidence and burden of proof. He would be a "religious" Tyrran (or Gargauthian)
• A army officer would see the world in terms of struggles and combatants. He would be "religious" of Tempus (or Red Knight)
• A banker would see the world in terms of investment, opportunity and income . He would be "religous" of Waukeen.

So I'd draw an analogue with FR "religious" with modern education: How you see the world if you are a graduate from a Military Academy, Law School, Engineering, Police Academy, or a MBA. You don't doubt the other "faiths" exist, but you view the world through a certain prism. And if you are strongly "religious" you probably think your prism reveals some important truths that you want to share.

And then sometimes of course there are those of a religion that directly opposes yours, but that part is typically easy.

An Azuthan one might think to easiest fall to an "engineer" mindset. Magic and the weave is your tool, like science is to the modern engineer. You want to come up with solutions to issues, to make life better by meticulously applying knowledge, and to preserve that knowledge. Or I suppose a less practical approach would be a "scientist/professor" who seeks, keeps and teaches magical knowledge for its own sake. But that might be a bit harder to weave to "adventurer" form.

[Zelknolf]

To be fair, there are over-the-top Abramic-style "anyone who worships anyone else is a heretic to be killed / cowed / scorned" faiths in FR-- Cyric, Bane, and Shar come to mind. Of course, pretty much everyone hates those religions (most of Faerûn threw a collective party when Bane died, after all).

And there is plenty of "My god is cooler than your god" when they stand for mutually-exclusive concepts or philosophies.

[SCI-kick]

I think it's important to remember along with all the dogma, customs, and beliefs that you remember the PC is still a person with a personality and weaknesses. Try and mix the religious part well with the "human" personality.

Sometimes it's hard for me to flesh out a PCs real personality especially clerics, so I base it one someone from a movie. For my favorite cleric PC of all time I used Damian Kharas from "The Exorcist" as a personality base. He was very religious, honest, and devoted but he had many weaknesses. . . A bad temper, self-doubt, questioning of his own faith, even maybe a bit of taste for scotch whiskey.

My current PC Olin is a cleric and I use some characters from movies as well for him. I used the portrayal of Jorah Mormont on "Game of Thrones" on HBO for his speech and also how he is very dutiful among his companions, especially when danger is near. I also mix in a little traits of Ed Burn's BAR gunner Private Reiben from "Saving Private Ryan".....
Also a soldier, he's a front-liner carrying the biggest hitter in the squad with his BAR machine gun (i.e. , Olin's battleaxe) . He is very brave, but is a bit reckless, has a bit of a temper, and questions the logic things. (Kind of chaotic good nature)

(incidentally it's funny how Reiben was the only original squad member to survive, since the guy with a BAR rifle was almost always a walking dead man since that's the first thing an enemy force would take out. . . sorry. . .. got sidetracked)


Look for some character in any movie you like that might be seen as religious. For Azuth a scientist or something might fit.

Hope this helped!

[Galadorn]

Kneel near anything related to your God.


Emote *praying*


You're golden.



next!

[dergon darkhelm]

Conversion doesn't even have that much meaning in FR; in our world, it means rejecting one canon in favor of another, but in a world where all gods are accepted as real and people offer prayers to many gods including their patron "switching faiths" is not at all what it is in our world.

It was my understanding that the number and fervor of worshippers is directly tied to a diety's power in the FR pantheon.

It would certainly follow that conversion (voluntary if possible, forced if necessary depending on the particular god) and "whipping up fervor" would follow among the clergy.

[Zelknolf]

(voluntary if possible, forced if necessary depending on the particular god)

Bad faith produces no power, and dooms people to the Wall of the Faithless.

Why FR has a random nibble of existentialism in its mix I can't explain, but there you go. You may also claim that truth is a mobile army of metaphors, presumably.

[fluffmonster]

Conversion doesn't even have that much meaning in FR; in our world, it means rejecting one canon in favor of another, but in a world where all gods are accepted as real and people offer prayers to many gods including their patron "switching faiths" is not at all what it is in our world.

It was my understanding that the number and fervor of worshippers is directly tied to a diety's power in the FR pantheon.

It would certainly follow that conversion (voluntary if possible, forced if necessary depending on the particular god) and "whipping up fervor" would follow among the clergy.

It cannot be just that simple for the fact that given individual will pray to many gods over the course of a day and there are very powerful dieties with relatively few 'followers' . We would need to debate and parse that idea a whole bunch. What is worship? How are worshippers sorted? I would not argue that there is no value to a diety in getting more people to adopt him/her as a patron, but I doubt it is a simple on/off thing (and I suspect it is the counting of prayers and offerings that matter, people offering more of such to their patron) . That is not to say that a given PC might not treat the matter just that way either.

[Ithildur]

Just a reminder before getting TOO deep/quasi-philosophical:

FR was invented by a guy named Ed Greenwood.

[Adanu]

Just a reminder before getting TOO deep/quasi-philosophical:

FR was invented by a guy named Ed Greenwood.

DOesn't mean we can't attach our own meanings to it.

[ElCadaver]

Rumple, to make it simple, learn the dogma, walk the walk, talk the talk, in about a 80/20 ratio, and you'll be fine.

That holds for all religions, make believe or not.