Possiblities for villians?

[dergon darkhelm]

I just want to say that I feel your pain in support for evil.

Even with a healthy hunk of DM support, the fatigue and IC strife of a couple years of playing an evil PC in NWN1 was too much and strongly influenced my decision to play "one of the good guys" in NWN2. If DM support for an evil player group disappears, even transiently, things fall apart.

Some of the servers had scripted support for evil deeds (WD's taking the thugs to Skullport and selling them into slavery was my paricular favorite! ), but based on ym previous experience, there is simply never going to be equal building, scripting, DMing support for evil players. You might get some, but it simply won't balance out overall.

Couple that with a sense of some players that all plots are meant to be resovled in faor of good (I remember extensive discussions/arguments with Mayhem about this very topic), and that in D&D evil is simply meant to be the antagonist that is eventually overcome.


After all that rambling above, I guess my point is .....playing evil in ALFA is harder. If you want to do it it can be rewarding but it is certainly not the easy path.

[kiyoti]

Seeing as I am part of a 7+ PC, openly evil group (aurilians/you remember grull was one not so long ago) I have to agree with what has been said before me. Evil will get you less DM time, less things built for your faction that end up in the mod and little to no reward for completing your goals. This occurs even when your evil faction out numbers any other faction on a server. I would strongly suggest to anyone new to ALFA to play a good or neutral PC or be ready for disappointment. Games in ALFA2 tend to be for the good/neutral guys period. Most people, if they want to play evil at all, are going to be forced to play the hidden evil type that doesn’t reveal its true nature. Now there are some exceptions to this but they are few and far between and the player most likely would have started out good then went evil later and so already have a firm DM/good aligned player base that excepts them anyway OR they were evil and turned to the light and now get the loving they missed out on as an evil PC.

That’s my 2 cents

[Riotnrrd]

my decision to play "one of the good guys" in NWN2.

Too bad I never got to meet this good guy. What was his name, before you retired him and started Rath?

[Lucifer]

my decision to play "one of the good guys" in NWN2.

Too bad I never got to meet this good guy. What was his name, before you retired him and started Rath?

+1... This is based on AD&D Not original D&D it is no longer Lawful= Good, Chaotic=Evil..Something Some Chars *cough Helmites* have a hard time seeing. I Looove getting into those discussions I/C

[hollyfant]

While it might be a derailment of the discussion, alignment-play can make for interesting and viable "evil-light". LN often appears to be LE, and likewise a True of Chaotic Neutral character can shun the goody two-shoes without having to resort to PvP. Conversely, known Neutrals - like Druids or Oghmanites -make excellent buddies/cover for truly nasty PCs.

[rorax]

Naturally, people make connection between playing evil to PvP. While i understand where it comes, it does not have to be so.

I think there are lots of ways to play 'evil' without being invovled in PvP.

[Rotku]

I Looove getting into those discussions I/C

That's one thing I love about playing with Vendrin's Banite in BG. This alignment discussion gets really enjoyable. My previous PC, a paladin, often seemed to have more in common with the Banites than with the CG PCs on the server.

[dergon darkhelm]

I Looove getting into those discussions I/C

That's one thing I love about playing with Vendrin's Banite in BG. This alignment discussion gets really enjoyable. My previous PC, a paladin, often seemed to have more in common with the Banites than with the CG PCs on the server.

Rath gets along with Barid philosophically bettter than just about any other PC in ALFA.

[Magile]

I Looove getting into those discussions I/C

That's one thing I love about playing with Vendrin's Banite in BG. This alignment discussion gets really enjoyable. My previous PC, a paladin, often seemed to have more in common with the Banites than with the CG PCs on the server.

Barid, with the help of his knight, was able to convert a fallen paladin into their ranks due to their logic of order and justice just fitting in, especially when the good guy is tired of seeing the "good" order turning out to mean "sit on our thumbs and wait for the enemy to kill someone first."

As for the initial discussion, there is a possibility for villains in ALFA; however, it's very difficult (as mentioned before) and takes a lot of effort from the DM(s) and the player. Contrary to what kiotyi mentioned, a good PC turning evil does not mean they continue to keep all of their old friends/old acquaintances keep in contact with them -- my PC has certainly come to realize that the transition is a one-way road that most won't follow you on, and some may even hunt you down over.

Just remember, there's a greater chance of an evil/villainous PC dying by the hands of another PC than a good/heroic PC, and the threat looms from ALL alignments to said villain, not just the "goodie two-shoes." Fantasy, no matter how dark, always roots for the champions of good and justice to succeed in the end, sadly.

[Vendrin]

I Looove getting into those discussions I/C

That's one thing I love about playing with Vendrin's Banite in BG. This alignment discussion gets really enjoyable. My previous PC, a paladin, often seemed to have more in common with the Banites than with the CG PCs on the server.

Rath gets along with Barid philosophically bettter than just about any other PC in ALFA.

And yet you treat him with such disdain. Such a waste.


Evil has plenty of opportunities to work in ALFA. You just have to play it smart evil.

"You're a cook. I don't kill cooks. Although...there was that one time in Boston. But all I'd have to do is get the jury to taste his salmon mousse, and there isn't a court in the land that would convict me."

[kiyoti]

Magile wrote:

Contrary to what kiotyi mentioned, a good PC turning evil does not mean they continue to keep all of their old friends/old acquaintances keep in contact with them

i'd be the first to that they shouldn't. i'm just calling it like i see it.

[DMyles]

I played an evil pc in alfa1 that pretended to be good. My pc reported to npcs about the groups plans ect. The dm would send me a tell that someone one a crowded street signaled to me or something and I would have to come up with some excuse to ditch the group so I could go give my report and collect my bag of gold. It was so much fun being scared somebody in the group was going to follow me or somehow figure things out.

I find evil pcs more fun and the most fun to me is CE. My 1st pc in nwn2 was a malorite druid named Minos. Most people new I was evil but that doesn't mean I was a criminal who couldn't interact with others. Actually the tension from my being evil was kind of nice and I quite enjoyed playing him until he met an untimely end.

[johnlewismcleod]

I enjoyed Minos. Perhaps the most important thing about playing evil is a willingness to let go when they do, inevitably, meet their untimely ends. When one plays evil, not only are the monsters out to get you, but most PC's as well.

Don't get over attached, keep it real and fair, ...and die well

It is essential for the good of all that players of evil don't play to win IMO. If you are the type that cannot help but to use whatever trick your clever players mind can think of to "come out on top", then it's best to stick with good and nuetral.

Though it could correctly be argued that no class or alignment has a right to fudge or cheat, in my experience more grief can be caused when it's done by an evil.

[mr duncan]

It is essential for the good of all that players of evil don't play to win IMO. If you are the type that cannot help but to use whatever trick your clever players mind can think of to "come out on top", then it's best to stick with good and nuetral.

If you are the type that cant handle the evil guys getting a dirty trick over on you and loosing your good PC, you should not be wasting the time of serious RPers.

What you said there is annoying in the extreme but does rather accurately describe the OOC slant that ALFA has in the favor of good guys. From an almost total lack of DM coverage for evil groups to admin telling the DMs and HDMs they need to get serious about making sure that evil groups and characters dont get ahead or even settled in... ALFA is becoming less a place for serious RP and more like a Disney movie where the plucky hero will always win in the end

This post paints in bright colors the reasons I have had a growing sense of ennui about gaming and building. Really sad, because I do miss ALFA or at least I miss what it was


J

[johnlewismcleod]

I can see where you could misundertsand what I meant, Mr D...I should have been more precise:

IC tricks and traps are fine and to not use your PC's intelligence is a waste. What I referred to were the OOC/meta/PGer tricks of using the game mechanics, OOC information, or not honouring your characters skills and abilities to "win" a game that is not meant to be won.

CvC is a powder keg and having played and managed evil in NWN for many years, one thing I learned is that it is essential that evil are studious about "playing fair" and not playing with a "chip on the shoulder" or an "axe to grind".

It is simply a concession to the reality of human nature that evil game play must be held to a higher standard. It fine and realistic for evils to survive and even thrive on occassion, but it must be done well, so that all involved know that the player who deploys evil is playing evil to enrich the server, not because they personally enjoy abusing other peoples PC's.

I have never witnessed you do anything that did not reflect highest standards of game play, and certainly didn't mean to imply otherwise (and I say that from rather extensive personal experience with you ).

What I meant to say is that IMO evil RP is not for the inexperienced or unscrupulous...wicked, underhanded, nastiness is best done by players who are mature and personally LG

And evil is alive and well in TSM, I assure you