Time Compression - Again

[Rotku]

Count all the members who didn't vote in the "No" column.

But then comes the question that I was discussing with dobs before. How many other active members are there? 1? 50? 100? We were trying to work out a fair number of votes needed before we can be considered to have a quorum, if you will.

While I can understand where you are coming from with that statement (hence mine and dobs talk about the quorum), I don't completely agree. ALFA has always, thankfully, been a community where the majority of people remain IG and don't bother with these things on the forums. If we were always to follow that logic, would anything ever get changed (for good or bad)?

[Veilan]

I didn't see the latest poll until it was over.

+1

Guess we're no active members .

[rorax]

I didn't see the latest poll until it was over.

+1

Guess we're no active members .

Not sure if you're kidding or not


But saying you did not see the poll, when you have over 2400 posts is a bit.....hrm. The poll was sticky for a week in all forums, i think it's enough time for people to vote.

Most players do visit the forums, because basically you start your journey in ALFA in these forums, i am pretty sure most players do check them after they join the game. I personally know that i asked people i saw in game if they voted or not. I came to most char rooms and asked if people voted or not, i am not sure what can be done more...

The poll has 37 votes - it actually looks like a good number. We should assume that the votes of people who did not vote would spread equally, keeping the rates as they are now.


Those who did not 'vote' are people who missed the 'elections' in a democratic process. Rotku is right, if we always keep "assuming' that there are X voices of people who did not vote - and automatically count their notes as "against" for any purpose , nothing would ever change.


As final note, there was a week for people to raise their concerns regarding of if this poll is reflecting the reality or not, i find it a bit strange that everyone come here AFTER the poll ended and the results are "FOR" the change.


I saw some officials and admins are being elected every once in a while here, if the claims that "all people who did not vote should be counted as no" , or "I did not see the poll until it was ended" would be legit , then they could be legit in those decisions as well.

[dergon darkhelm]

If we are going to have to have an extensive discussion after each poll as to whether said poll was a representative sampling of the community then we will never do anything but spin our wheels.

People who didn't vote.............didn't vote. If you want to assume any intent in their not voting, then the most reasonable intent is the "don't care" side.

37 people sounds to me like a significant percentage of the "regular" player base.

[HEEGZ]

I'm with Dergon here. Also, I thought there would be a lot more support than 50%... Even though I would prefer to change to 14, it looks like we should leave it at 7 as has been the case.

[rorax]

I'm with Dergon here. Also, I thought there would be a lot more support than 50%... Even though I would prefer to change to 14, it looks like we should leave it at 7 as has been the case.

It's 62% against 38%!


We're only counting the "FOR" votes against the "AGAINST" votes, abstain votes don't count because for "No"s.

What i've been trying to say is that...

I guess there could be two ways of doing things, both are very acceptable:

1. Admins and DMs decide anything and on everything by themselves, players don't get to say their minds, this is fine - but it should be a policy.

2. Democratic polls / votes where players get to say their mind and change things, and decision of majority are being enforced on everyone.


But i think combo of the both is the worst - when you start a poll , there is a decision by the majority of the players and then Admin / DM come and do a veto /and or/ someone come and says he did not see the vote /and or / someone says votes of all people who did not vote should be counted 'AGAINST' it's bit frustrating and make(at least me) wonder what was the purpose of the poll from the beginning...

[johnlewismcleod]

It's 62% against 38%! ...

Personally, and at the risk of irritating a curmudgeon, I have difficulty reading the poll other than as rorax does. The other interpretations are that...interpretations.

The poll options were: For, Against, Don't Care.

Not For, Against, Against.

Having said that, I would have to also say that in my mind, HDM's should likely have a veto power or something concerning things that they feel negatively impact their servers. Perhaps this never should have gone to a vote in the first place.

*drops shovel, backs away from hole*

[dergon darkhelm]

I honestly didn't even consider that Curm might have speaking in opposition with his HDM hat on.

I certainly am not so strongly in favor of the change as to be willing to piss off the HDM over it.

Are you opposed, Curm? Or just taking issue with the validity of the poll?

[rorax]

Are you opposed, Curm? Or just taking issue with the validity of the poll?

Curm does not want the change i think he said it in the forums and the other time compression thread.

I am not sure he's pissed with people stating their minds and opinions, everyone are entitled to speak - surely if it starts from poll.

[Brother Humphrey]

I don't know what the problem is. For means For, Against means Against, Abstain/Don't Care means I don't care either way and will go with the majority decision. When there's a clear 61+% of For votes vs. 38% Against, I have always been given to understand that the Ayes have it, Mr. Speaker. Those who did not make it to the polls have no voice in the decision, PERIOD!

DEMOCRACY 4TW!

[NickD]

It's 62% against 38%!

We're only counting the "FOR" votes against the "AGAINST" votes, abstain votes don't count because for "No"s.

You're only counting the For vs. Against votes. As an Admin, Heegz can count the Abstain votes if he likes.

(To put myself into context here, I was calling for longer IG hours several years ago, so I'm obviously not rabidly opposed to the idea. But an abstain vote is still a vote.)

[psycho_leo]

This is precisely the reason why I hate these polls. We just end up running around in circles after the vote trying to determine if it was representative and/or somehow valid. The ones that "won" the poll argue that the majority has spoken and it must be done and the "losers" keep explaining how unfair it was. Now, it's perfectly fine to run polls so that the powers that be can get a feel of what the community desires and make an informed vote, but you should probably be clear on that. Polls create a high expectancy when the results call for changes.

I for one don't have a real problem with the 7 min hour and never really had, except for fast running buffs, but after a few frustrating experiences, learning how to time the casting of said buffs came as naturally as ignoring the fact that I ocasionally had PCs having 2-day conversions. But I'm not going to cry if ALFA switches to 14, especially since I don't even play right now.

[Rotku]

Okay, let's wind this discussion down for now. Nothing new has been added for a while.

Players have had a couple of opportunities to weigh in with their thoughts.

DMs have also wieghted in with theirs.

I've let the Admin know my opinion. HEEGZ has let us know his.

As far as I am concerned, taking all this into account, the final call is AL's and AL's alone. As he has just returned from his holiday, give him some time to get up to speed, and I'm sure he'll be able to present a perfectly good reason for what ever he decides.

[rorax]

Any news regarding this issue?

[AcadiusLost]

Under deliberation. I'll post when I have a verdict.