Starting beyond lv1 and planetoouched races.

[Vendrin]

The thing that bums me out is having to fight rats and bats everytime you start a PC. The game has so many cool higher level enemies, which can be incorporated into great campaigns, but no one is every capable of facing them. I mean, you just can't have combat with a pit fiend at lvl1, it just doesn't work.

You can't even have combat with a chicken at lv1.

[Burt]

The thing that bums me out is having to fight rats and bats everytime you start a PC. The game has so many cool higher level enemies, which can be incorporated into great campaigns, but no one is every capable of facing them. I mean, you just can't have combat with a pit fiend at lvl1, it just doesn't work.

You can't even have combat with a chicken at lv1.

Hell in NWN2 I can't even target chickens with spells, such is their power.

[Kest]

Not being able to target friendlies with spells is a major pain in the ass, as I discovered when trying to cast Sleep on a NPC afflicted with lycanthropy.

goddammit NWN2

[oldgrayrogue]

I have always felt that in a PW that has areas of varying degree of difficulty, starting level, for everyone, should be 2 or 3. One reason for this is to avoid the "level 1 meat grinder." Nothing sucks more than spending time and effort on a character concept to have it squashed by a lucky crit hit from a kobold -- or worse a badger or something. Believe me I know, my first ALFA PC was pwnd by a pony to my eternal shame.

As Vendrin points out this results in level 1 being a bit of a bore for some, in that you are limited in the type of RP you can engage in. Engaging in any combat, alone or in a group, carries the risk of instant death and an end to the concept. Playing a rogue or mage increases this risk tenfold. So right off the bat your RP opportunities are very limited IMO unless you enjoy RPing a neophyte PC who likes to hang around in town, which is fine, but again very limiting. Starting at level 2, lets say, negates all of these issues and is not such a huge boost that it changes the hardcore nature of the server. It provides the player with many more choices for both their character concept and their RP right off the bat, instead of limitng those choices out of an OOC fear that you will lose your character concept to a lucky crit hit, which is a very real meta concern an RP PW could best do without. A hardcore server should be hardcore for all levels. On ALFA its really only hardcore for level 1-3. Having just retired a level 6 PC on TSM I can honestly say that in terms of combat he likely could have survived solo against anything the server had to throw at him. That OOC lack of a challenge was one of the things that led me to decide to retire him. IMO it would be nice if all levels, starting to the highest, could enjoy all variety of challenging content, as they slowly advance. I know this is extremely unlikely to ever change in ALFA, but what the hell I have an opinion.

OK that was way off topic. In terms of the OP's suggestion, I don't think retiring a PC should get you any benefit on your next PC. As to starting above level 1 on a campaign, I would leave that entirely to the DM. If a DM wants to run a level 10, hell a level 20 campaign, she should be permitted to do so as long as its a closed campaign. If the DM wants to vary the levels at campaign start to balance the party out that's fine with me too.

[Burt]

Need I remind everyone that abolishing level 1 will mean a severe decrease in njub corpses, which will undoubtedly have an adverse affect on the wealth of all our characters.

[Dorn]

With DMs and statics, there is no excuse for not starting at level 1.

Without DMs and without statics there is every reason to start above level 1.

We have few DMs (through no fault of the team) and many statics.

I just retired a character and started again and have managed to use statics and grouping with other characters to get to within a stones throw of level 2 without getting past Highhold (fairly quickly as well). So i met characters and established my characters njubery (he's level 1 not level 5) and it wasn't a 'grind'.

How is it any different from the 'grind' from level 2-3? All you'd do is go and do all the statics but piss it in with no real risk because your stronger. Or maybe the statics would just be upgraded. Buth then that woudl just mean you'd have an equal chance of dying.

I honestly feel that hardcore RP server should not jump people up levels becasue it's painful to roleplay the 'newb' and have to rely on others in the SAVAGE FRONTIER (ie a dangerous place you'd assume by the name).

As for the challenges.

Perhaps in the future when there are more people working as DMs/builders on the server then the challenges would be come tougher furtehr away from the roads. In TLR (smaller map squares) there used to be ettins on the same maps as the road and hill giants one map accross and ogres (including a few ogre mages) one accross depending on how far you were from a city. The mountains in TSM sound perfect for these (silverymoon pass).

In loudwater there were dark druids and dryads or shape changers that would take down an fighter with low will in seconds. The forests near quervarr and near the dead trees etc are also perfect for these on TSM.

This was great in areas where people would wander in and kill all the goblins regularly and suddenly BAM thereis a higher CR monster you wern't expecting there.

These things (or the way they were made on tlr) would put a serious dent in a level 6 on a low magic server whre you're lucky to have a +1 sword by level 6.

As i said, maybe when the DM team is better resourced this will come and i think would be a good idea....if people aren't finding enough challenge. I cant speak for this not having gone very far on the server, just passing comment.

[danielmn]

Dorn, though somewhat relevant, I think what is being discussed here and elsewhere is being looked at for nwn1, not nwn2. I think at this current juncture, as has been noticed previously, they are two different beasts, one that remains in an ad-hoc persistant state, the other platform consisting of campaign servers. Whereas nwn1 could benefit from this, I, like you, do not see the relative benefit for NWN2 at this juncture, and I don't beleive it is being considered for the platform.

[Dorn]

Ah ok. It's just i play with the OP (dob) on NWN2 and didn't realise he was talking (or played on!) about nwn1.

But you're right, my discussion was not about giving bonuses to ECL characters if you retire a higher level.

[NickD]

I also suspect the OP is referring to NWN2.

I like everyone starting at level 1. It weeds out the perpetual level 1 noobs who create a 1st level wizard and then goes and takes on 3 goblins solo, rinse and repeat. People like rotku. Except most of them get bored and move on.

[dob85y]

Just to clarify my point.

A, I dont play on NWN1 servers, but the suggestion wasnt aimed at any platform, it was just an idea.

B, the basis for the idea was not about finding a way around level 1, or about a faster progression. The idea was based on the fact, firstly that I find it wierd, that you can have a character concept, that is encouraged to have a rich and full history, that allways finds its way to a port in TSM at level 1.

Considering the history of the general area, how many untrained unskilled folk are gonna head up to the Savage Frontier to try to make a life for them selves?

Secondly, Id like to someday play an older character, with a history that includes monster hunting or a mercenary background, perhaps an outed monk who has lost his focus, but starting out at lv 1 its kind of pointless.

cool idea, but....

There is a vocal portion of ALFA that will in essence say ...

"It took me 2 years to reach 5th level, It is therefore cheating or PGing for anyone else to reach this level with out having sacrificed the same as me."

Good luck really, it may be the "kiss of death" for your idea but I like it, it would of course need some refining and then testing...but I think it could work.

I cant see this as a valid argument, simply because the player in question will allready have a high level character after months/years of play, they will hae done the hard yards, it will be merely a little recognition for the player if they choose to take it up. Obviously the process would have to involve a DM anyway so everything would be above board.

In saying that, i personally would be very unlikley to actually retire a character, unless there were OOC reasons (fundamental bugs with the character class ect) of making a major mistake wih a feat choice (though im pretty careful with this, using Vordans Hero Creator to check things work as i expect them to) But who knows, ive heard the reasons others retire their characters for, and they seem more than reasonable, so maybe it will happen to me one day.

The other thing, with the plane touched (as opposed to those other ones, the plane toouched) i should have really said ECL, i know there had been discussion about what level they start at, i just figgured you could roll them in, aso ensureing that the more experienced players were taking on the more challanging rolls, (the n00bs eyes light up when they see WOW you can be DROW??) Not that im saying that there have been any issues that im aware of to date.

Need I remind everyone that abolishing level 1 will mean a severe decrease in njub corpses, which will undoubtedly have an adverse affect on the wealth of all our characters.

Im not sure if you are refering to my initial post, but i hardly think that it will be the end of 1st level PC's, in my huge experience with ALFA (a whole 6 months) i have know 2 characters that retired, and about 20 that died. This is only in my memory but im sure the stats are reasonabilly close to the mark.

There are many checks and balances that could be put into place, such as written notice of the intent to retire a character, with a bio of the new concept and approval required prior to the reitrment, the player must be in good standing... the list goes on.

In the end, all im trying to do is ensure our community prospers, and by at least putting ideas up for discussion there is a chance, id hate to get to a stage where i thought it was pointless offering an idea, then again maybe its because im a Whelp.

[Rotku]

I also suspect the OP is referring to NWN2.

I like everyone starting at level 1. It weeds out the perpetual level 1 noobs who create a 1st level wizard and then goes and takes on 3 goblins solo, rinse and repeat. People like rotku. Except most of them get bored and move on.

And then there are those horrible persistent noobs who even after 5+ years still roll up level one wizards and goes and takes on 3 goblins solo.

[Vintenar]

Seems to me that letting veteran players start at a higher level would only hinder new players who were in need of other low level characters to play with...

[Castano]

Get rid of CvC and IMO you can start at whatever lvl you want to after retiring a PC.

I don't want to see the fights if we let DMs bump people for campaigns...trust me it will be bad. Most of us can't handle wealth differences between PCs.

[danielmn]

GET RID OF CVC?!?!

HOW DARE YOU SIR!!!

For some people, that is the only concept they can play, an evil silent lowbie who avoids drawing attention turned vicious bully cvc threatener at higher levels.

SACRILAGE I SAY!!!!

[Magile]

GET RID OF CVC?!?!

HOW DARE YOU SIR!!!

For some people, that is the only concept they can play, an evil silent lowbie who avoids drawing attention turned vicious bully cvc threatener at higher levels.

SACRILAGE I SAY!!!!

Although the above example is lame in itself (and how people will do that at times), banishment of CvC does cut a lot of the exciting tension of playing conflicting characters out of the game play. No matter how evil, vicious or controversial one's PC may be, they'd know that there's nothing a PC could do about it outside of gritting their teeth while shaking a clenched fist, sometimes uttering "YOU'LL RUE THE DAY!"

Actions without consequence... sounds pretty stale to me. Didn't realize this was a sandbox game.