Questions for indio

[Nalo Jade]

to clarify... a Hypothetical situation.

Admin X decides to have member A be a moderator, this is obviously a farce because it is obvious that member A is vocally opposed to moderation. When the member A becomes a moderator, he choose not to moderate anything, his post count is 0.

Thus Admin X has met their requirement of providing a moderator but that moderator is null.

Or Admin X does not provide anyone siting they cannot find a suitable member.

To clarify further I am not asking what "you" would do as IA, I am asking how you personally would like to see the situation resolved as a whole.

[indio]

I'd simply ask if the person wanted to be a moderator before selecting them.

[JaydeMoon]

I think that Nalo is speaking about another Admin's choice of moderator, not yours.

Also, I think Nalo is assuming that even if you asked that individual, they would say, "Yes, I would like to be a moderator."

And then, they would sit and not moderate, or worse yet they would work to sabotage the moderation initiative by moderating in a totally inappropriate manner.

Not saying that has happened, but could see it happening. What would you do in that case?

[Nalo Jade]

oops sorry ...

I am still not making it clear...

You are not the moderator nor the Admin in this situation, this is assuming that another Admin (other than you) is "opposed" to moderation, and in an effort to resist the moderation that other Admin chooses to either select an ineffective moderator or chooses not to select a moderator at all.

What would you like to see the rest of Admin do to correct the "resistance" from a anti-moderation Admin?

[edit: Jayde is quicker than Jade ]

[indio]

What would you like to see the rest of Admin do to correct the "resistance" from a anti-moderation Admin?

The charter is pretty clear when it comes to such matters.

Infra Admin has responsibility for the Website. Just because an agreement has been struck between Infra and Lead over moderating responsibilities does not mean Infra does not retain full official responsibility for its oversight. I'd expect the Infra Admin to step in and control the abuse.

If the Lead and Infra were in agreement over the non-role of moderating in ALFA, then such a step wouldn't be necessary, because moderating would have already been dropped and not require subverting.

If the Lead chose to claim ownership of Website to push their non-moderating postion, I'd expect Infra to enact the newly added section of Cross-Domain Issues:

2.1.2 Cross-Domain Issues

When two or more Administrators claim formal domain over a specific issue and cannot agree on a course of action, the matter will be referred to Lead to determine the assignment of domain to one or multiple Admin as per 2.1.1.A above. Should Lead determine that the issue belongs in the domain of multiple Admin, Lead will give those Admin a fixed period of time in which to agree a course of action. If no consensus is reached after that time, all Admin will vote on the issue with Lead's vote carrying additional tie-breaking weight in the event of a deadlock.

Emphasis added.

The role of admin is to uphold the charter in the service of this community. It should always be the first port of call when deciding matters in doubt, as it ensures the rights of all members, including admin.

And finally, if Lead held a no moderating policy, I'd expect they wouldn't continue in the current agreement with Infra and hand the moderating responsibility right back. Thus the role of ongoing moderating would fall to Infra to determine.

Which leads to one more scenario: If Infra were trying to subvert moderating, they wouldn't need to. They could simply choose to not do it and be completely within their rights.

[Nalo Jade]

Which leads to one more scenario: If Infra were trying to subvert moderating, they wouldn't need to. They could simply choose to not do it and be completely within their rights.

That is exactly the type of situation I am refering to. If that or something similiar occurs is the community/rest of Admin powerless to do anything?

What would you like to see the rest of Admin do...even if not doing something is within the rights of the individual?

[Mulu]

Nalo you seem to be going way off topic for Indio's bid as InfraAdmin. As I understand it, to answer your question, the proper response to any admin not doing their job is the recall vote, as seen recently for DMA.

[indio]

Recall is certainly an option.

If you're seeking clarification on the charter and the rights it gives admin, the experts, and by a long shot, are Cassiel and fluffy.

Put simply, moderating can easily be defined by the Infra Admin as irrelevant. The charter states they have a responsibility to the following:

D. Infrastructure Administrator—Vault, IRC, FTP, & Website.

No mention of moderating.

Moderating is an effort by the current admin to reduce the toll abuse takes on our members. It's an initiative that requires support from Infra to continue, or it can simply be abololished. In the spirit of teamwork and shared responsibility, one would hope that no such unilateral decision to remove moderating would ever be made, especially given the recent PA election, arguably an important majority vote on the desire to retain moderating, and a vote I consider significant.

[Lusipher]

I'd like to bring up this one question then I will not ask any others.

D. Infrastructure Administrator—Vault, IRC, FTP, & Website.

If you become IA will you at least look into the way IRC is currently. We have 2 channels. One is supposedly a help channel and its never used whatsoever. We have the #alfa channel which everyone sits in and its nothing more than a cesspool half the time. Not everyone that goes in there is bad or disruptive, but this channel is for the most part the face of ALFA for new players looking for answers they cant find on the forums. If they come into this channel now they can meet hostility, racial slurs, sexism, and more. It is not a good "face" for the project and the current moderators in place are a joke. Half the time there is no moderation and the other half you see some of the moderators themselves engaging in the above examples. Not all the mods, but some.

Will you if you become IA please do something about the #alfa channel becoming more of a place we would want our new players to enter. Either work with Paazin and get real moderators in the channel or find something that works. Also, get rid of the other alfa channel because its not even being used for anything related to helping new players or guests.

We have people who hang in #alfa all day long who dont play or contribute to anything in ALFA, but they are quick to cuss, degrade, and cause problems and their allowed to stay in IRC and do it. Its unexceptable and Id like to see someone have some balls and do something about it.

Thank you.

[indio]

Will you if you become IA please do something about the #alfa channel becoming more of a place we would want our new players to enter.

No, but nor do I think needlessly offending new players is desireable. I think all new players need to be informed that the formal faces of the forum and chat are to be sought first and foremost to ensure our best foot is forward. Is this in the acceptance email?

The fact no one uses the formal IRC chanel, regardless, is no reason to modify the existing popular chanel. I've explained at some length my feelings on the nature of chat, and my formal stance on #alfa, so I won't bore you with it again. But Off-Topic and #alfa are critical to our life as a community. It may be an ugly side to us, but hiding our ugly side, or worse, repressing it, would do far more damage. It would impinge, for starters, on many of our members rights to enjoy each other's company, even in argument.

[Swift]

Listen to the masses.

Does that include when the 'masses' are almost evenly split down the middle in what they want ala PA election?

[MorbidKate]

Listen to the masses.

Does that include when the 'masses' are almost evenly split down the middle in what they want ala PA election?

Hmm, almost only counts in nuclear warfare Swiffer. In our case majority rules

Kate

[indio]

Listen to the masses.

Does that include when the 'masses' are almost evenly split down the middle in what they want ala PA election?

Hmm, almost only counts in nuclear warfare Swiffer. In our case majority rules

Kate

Seems to me most democratic elections on big issues (issues that everyone has an opinion on) are split 50/50, more or less. In 6 months, at the next election, the pendulum may swing the other way. But for now, and part of the reason I'm running, is that the majority has spoken on moderating. It's not the only thing they've spoken on, of course, but it is certainly significant in my mind.

[MorbidKate]

Seems to me most democratic elections on big issues (issues that everyone has an opinion on) are split 50/50, more or less.

If there 2 options one of them has to get 50% or more each time. On the issue of one chat channel or two, members clearly voted for 1 channel but were ignored.

In 6 months, at the next election, the pendulum may swing the other way.

Well, even though it appears some Admin tried to undermine the moderation effort themselves by choosing members who were actively and obviously against moderation... as moderators... which explains the early behaviour of some Mods... things have settled down in spite of the intentional efforts to have Moderation revoked.

Nobody is against agreeable disagreement. It's the crud that drives people off or keeps them away that is the concern for most.

You said you'd never run for Admin again and I think the concern most have is whether the old Indio will return or not. Safe to say the new Indio has been both good to see and beneficial to the project so what assurances can you give voters that becoming Admin again won't raise the dead?

Kate

[indio]

what assurances can you give voters that becoming Admin again won't raise the dead?

Kate

Probably none.

I'm still here, I'm still working, I'm willing to serve and it's been 3 years.

Anything beyond that sounds more self-righteous than I'm comfortable with nowadays. Talk to people I've worked with in the last couple of years I guess. Their assurance will no doubt have far more impact than mine.