Governmental Reform: a waterfowl's perspective

Duck One · Post by **Duck One** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:49 pm

Two months have passed since I posted this, and so has recall effort and several really wonderful posts about private messages and who said what to whom, laced with the obligatory barbs and profanity, with all the usual suspects chipping in. Seriously, try an experiment:

Take the summer off. Don't log into here, get outside, spend time with your family. Then after a couple of months, log into here and catch up on what you've missed, and see if you don't see what I see: the same spiteful ill-tempered die-hards arguing minutia over something they claim to be a fun hobby. Trust me, you get a lot of perspective when you step away, and it really shows just how entrenched and jaded it is here.

Imagine what it must be like for a prospective new player or someone considering a return like me. I have to think that many of you here are so anesthetized to it that you don't see it. Take it from someone who doesn't have anything to gain or lose, and sincerely hopes the best for the community, this is a cancer that has to change.

Rick7475 · Post by **Rick7475** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:13 pm

Cone on, Duck. Come play on the new Silverymoon. You know you secretly want to.

It even has a duck pond

Nalo Jade · Post by **Nalo Jade** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:36 pm

Duck One wrote:<snip>
My guess is that the amount of enforcement you'd have to do would greatly diminish once a few examples had transpired. As for the value of some of these folks, I'm sure they're passionate, but is that the point? People are seldom jerks unless they feel strongly about a subject, but that doesn't excuse their behavior. Consider instead the number of people ALFA loses who decide whatever benefit ALFA may offer is not worth the ugliness that permiates the culture here. How many more willing hands might you have if that were to change?

If you feel ALFA offers something great, then show it respect, and insist upon it from others.

+1

Senor T · Post by **Senor T** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:00 am

There's just too many people here for us to just play and not worry about disputes arising. In fact, I sincerely believe that a lesser community filled with so many reasonable people that disagree would have folded by now. In fact, many have. But ALFA continues year after year. Duck, if this were any of the vast majority of unsuccessful nwn communities you wouldn't have a community to even consider returning to.

There is a bright side to all this bickering and flaming that goes on here: it doesn't ruin us. We eventually come around and refocus thanks to the dedication of many good people who deserve no less than our thanks. They're the ones who keep on making this a fun place to play despite all the doom and gloom.

Don't get me wrong, it doesn't compete with family, but some people enjoy a pastime of nerdy online DnD in the huge, rich environment we offer.

Just get in game and play and forget the forums. Leave them to those that want to post in them for whatever reason. If you play again, you won't regret it. In fact, you'll probably remember what makes this place so great.

Sintaqx · Post by **Sintaqx** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:29 pm

I poked my nose in here for the first time in about two years about th middle of april. I glanced through the forums and saw that in that time little had changed. There are, and will always be those who thrive in the political climate that forms whenever you get more than a couple people working together, the bullheaded, the stubborn, the self-important, the arrogant, the self-righteous, the loudmouth idiot, the apathetic, the persecuted, the paranoid.

Internet forums are a very, very poor representation of any project, and I have found this especially true in ALFA. They are an important tool for communicating with people without interference from real life, but even the most simple, basic of etiquette seems beyond some people on forums and the stupidest of misunderstandings can easily blow up into huge tangles of drama that threaten to split the community. The ALFA political behemoth lives and thrives in th forums.

People are, naturally, selfish creatures. With few exceptions what a person does, be it over the forums, irc, phone, or in person is not done with malicious intent towards you. Consider this when you read something you take exception to and if you absolutely must respond take some time to think how others could interpret what you write before submitting your post.

I nearly turned around and walked back out after looking around for a few hours, but I saw that TSM had just gone live and decided to poke around in there, see how it was. In doing so I met some new friends, some old friends, and have simply been having fun.

There are an incredible number of outstanding, dedicated, talented individuals here and I feel that those who brave the political bog to try to bring about something that everyone can enjoy deserve as much support and encouragement as we can give.

dergon darkhelm · Post by **dergon darkhelm** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:47 pm

Sintaqx wrote:I poked my nose in here for the first time in about two years about th middle of april. I glanced through the forums and saw that in that time little had changed. There are, and will always be those who thrive in the political climate that forms whenever you get more than a couple people working together, the bullheaded, the stubborn, the self-important, the arrogant, the self-righteous, the loudmouth idiot, the apathetic, the persecuted, the paranoid.

Internet forums are a very, very poor representation of any project, and I have found this especially true in ALFA. They are an important tool for communicating with people without interference from real life, but even the most simple, basic of etiquette seems beyond some people on forums and the stupidest of misunderstandings can easily blow up into huge tangles of drama that threaten to split the community. The ALFA political behemoth lives and thrives in th forums.

People are, naturally, selfish creatures. With few exceptions what a person does, be it over the forums, irc, phone, or in person is not done with malicious intent towards you. Consider this when you read something you take exception to and if you absolutely must respond take some time to think how others could interpret what you write before submitting your post.

I nearly turned around and walked back out after looking around for a few hours, but I saw that TSM had just gone live and decided to poke around in there, see how it was. In doing so I met some new friends, some old friends, and have simply been having fun.

There are an incredible number of outstanding, dedicated, talented individuals here and I feel that those who brave the political bog to try to bring about something that everyone can enjoy deserve as much support and encouragement as we can give.

Take your rational, calming, moderate discussion elsewhere! We don't need that crap!!

dergon darkhelm · Post by **dergon darkhelm** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:51 pm

((just in case))

HATEFACE · Post by **HATEFACE** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:04 pm

Dragged from the unholy depths of hells this be!
Back from whence ye came beast of the damned!

Lusipher · Post by **Lusipher** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:47 pm

Sintaqx is full of win!

Glad your back bud.

Akivaria · Post by **Akivaria** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:34 pm

Most of us foul-mouthed people of dubious parentage are only joking.

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:30 am

Vendrin · Post by **Vendrin** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:31 am

White Warlock · Post by **White Warlock** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:27 pm

Senor T wrote: There is a bright side to all this bickering and flaming that goes on here: it doesn't ruin us. We eventually come around and refocus thanks to the dedication of many good people who deserve no less than our thanks.

Hi SenorT, i firmly disagree.

This community used to be thousands strong. Now, it is disingenuous to claim even 200 members. In order to turn this around, everyone needs to 'accept' that there is a problem with the 'face' of ALFA. Acceptance is the first step to addressing the problem, and the problem is disrespect. Not merely to each other, but to other communities and to guests. ALFA members have openly insulted other communities, insulted guests in chat, and insulted each other in the forums. Even ingame, the occasional disturbing OOC PM would be encountered.

We can all say, "Yes, i saw the ugly of the forums and almost left, but jumped into the game and opted to stay." Unfortunately, this ends up being read as a dismissal of the issue, inferring that if people jump ingame, they'll see that ALFA is worth participating in.

Well, WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH MAKING SURE PEOPLE REALIZE ALFA IS WORTH PARTICIPATING IN AS SOON AS THEY JUMP IN THE FORUMS OR CHAT?!?!?!

sheesh...

You want to fix something, stop making excuses. As Jalo indicated in another thread, and Duck stated in this thread, until you start 'consistently' enforcing the community's TOS, there's really no point to building all these cool modules. The attitude that ALFA is a latrine and we can all shit away merely ensures it 'remains' a latrine.

Duck One · Post by **Duck One** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:00 pm

Surely when WW and I agree without reservation with one another, you have to give it serious consideration as it is the 4th sign of the apocolypse.

ALFA should be a recreational place where one escapes drama, not come to live another cyber version of it. ALFA should be a members-only privilidged society where only the civil need apply. If you value that for which it stands, then don't make excuses for those who can't treat it with respect.

I dare say that ALFA is made up of two types of people, those who can't exist in any other community because they'd get kicked out, and those who tolerate the first group as a necessary evil but become jaded at the environment nonetheless. Not a pleasant place to be.

You need not look much further than the small sampling of former members in this thread alone who have echoed the same sentiment. How many others no longer bother to even check back? How many prospective members come here and leave without saying a word? Stop thinking about what you might lose if you elevate the standard, and think of what you've lost already by keeping it low, and what you might gain should it be redressed.