Final vote on donations

[RangerDeWood]

I would donate just as I would donate now, if it means the continuation of ALFA. I've always been of the mind that if I have the money and it is needed I would donate it to help run a server I play on. ALFA has lasted pretty long on the goodwill and volunteer work of its members and I don't see a reason why it shouldn't just continue the way it is. This is a hobby. IMO, helping to pay for a server is the same as helping to pay for pizza or purchase books that your whole PnP group can use.

As long as Donations don't turn into Dues, I'm fine with it. I really don't see the reason why there's been such a concern for it these past few weeks and the need for a proposal at all.

[FanaticusIncendi]

Honestly, I really don't know which button to check. I would have been fine with just handing over a small donation no problem before this all got so complicated. I'm a smart person but really my eyes glaze over and all I hear is 'blah blah blah' when the legal e's fly. At this point I almost want to say the hell with it, just leave things as they are if it's going to get complex and ridiculous otherwise.

I'm not particularly concerned about the trust issue. I donate to various things all the time and i'm not going to sit around fretting and wondering if the money is really going where they say it is. I trust that it is and if I learn that it isn't well I simply won't give to them anymore and trust that the law of causation will work things out in its own time.

So in other words, can I have a button to check that says:

"Whatever. Here's some money tech guy, make everything run nice and smooth and don't bother me with the details. Make sure you buy insurance with my money so if your fancy machine blows a gasket you can fix it."

It's a friggin hobby for crying out loud. It doesn't need to be a struggle.

[Grand Fromage]

I'll probably donate twenty or thirty no matter the outcome. If it helps turn ALFA's hosting architecture into pure awesome than great, if not, I'm sure I won't lose any sleep over my lost fortune.

[Joos]

It's a friggin hobby for crying out loud. It doesn't need to be a struggle.

TiA. This is ALFA.

Anyhow, I would most probably make small, continual donations over the year, like 5-10 dollars a month, as long as I thought it was worthwhile.

How will this show be run? Something like this? I would prefer the treasurer to be a part of the admin body (new role) and voted fore like any other admin position by the community.

The treasurer would be responsible for the pay pal account and its management, including security, for example changing the password frequently, and keeping the lead admin updated about security information such as passwords and password changes. He would post weekly happenings of the account balance and account events open on the forum, with anonymos donations and payments.

Further, I do not believe that the Treasurer should be responsible for deciding where the funds are to be used, only responsible for managing the account. Decisions of funding should be decided by the admin body as a whole, where each of the admins hold one vote, including the treasurer.

Applications of funding could be filed by any HDM or Admin to the treasurer, who then calls for a meeting (irc) between the current admin body and the proposer, where the case is argued. Decisions made by the admin body are final.

Sure you can add lots to it, but thats a pretty good start.

[Mikayla]

There is a lot I will do for ALFA, I do love this place so, but one thing I will not do is take charge or responsibility, in any way, for donated monies. If folks want to follow Joos' idea of having the Admin as a whole be responsible for the donated monies, but we don't incorporate ALFA, well, I have to bow out. I am not going to put myself and my assets on the line for ALFA in such a way. If folks want to donate to "some person" be they an ALFA Admin or not, and hold THAT person accountable for the donations, well, I think its truly ill-advised because it (a) is unreliable and (b) allows that person to become the defact dictator of ALFA if they like - but thats between the folks donating and the donee.

Short of it is this - I will not accept any responsibility for moneys donated, at least not until ALFA is incorporated and there is a formal structure to ALFA. If the community feels the Admin should be responsible for the spending and such, but does not want to incorporate, thats fine, but then I'll be stepping down. I don't mean this to sound threatening (though I am sure it does, my apologies) I just have to make it very clear that I do not, and will not, accept any responsibility for donations made to other individuals within ALFA.

[Burt]

I agree with FI, incredibly.

[FanaticusIncendi]

It's a friggin hobby for crying out loud. It doesn't need to be a struggle.

TiA. This is ALFA.

I'm not Tia, i'm FI, lol at the thought. And yes it is alfa but please note the emphasis here:

"It doesn't NEED to be a struggle" Struggle is a choice

I don't see my button option added yet heehee

Sorry i'm kinda off-topic here, got carried away...

[ç i p h é r]

How will this show be run? Something like this? I would prefer the treasurer to be a part of the admin body (new role) and voted fore like any other admin position by the community.

The treasurer would be responsible for the pay pal account and its management, including security, for example changing the password frequently, and keeping the lead admin updated about security information such as passwords and password changes. He would post weekly happenings of the account balance and account events open on the forum, with anonymos donations and payments.

Further, I do not believe that the Treasurer should be responsible for deciding where the funds are to be used, only responsible for managing the account. Decisions of funding should be decided by the admin body as a whole, where each of the admins hold one vote, including the treasurer.

Applications of funding could be filed by any HDM or Admin to the treasurer, who then calls for a meeting (irc) between the current admin body and the proposer, where the case is argued. Decisions made by the admin body are final.

Sure you can add lots to it, but thats a pretty good start.

That sounds a lot like the requirements for incorporating. My impression is that it's this kind of formality which many people find unpleasant. I believe in earnest that if ALFA were to incorporate, every ALFAn outside of a select few (the officers) would carry on as they always have. In other words, it'd be a transparent change for the general membership.

[Mikayla]

Just because people have different opinions does not mean there is some NEEDless STRUGGLE occurring. It just means we have different opinions, and before we (ALFA) do something, its good to do a check to see if we are all on the same page (ie have the same opinion) or if we are not (ie have different opinions). There is nothing strange, needless or harmful in having the folks in ALFA discuss what their opinions are on a given matter - especially when it involves money and the very infrastructure of our project. Discussion is generally a good thing as it allows all the various opinions and ideas to be fully vetted. A lack of discussion is far more alarming, or rather I should say, a lack of opportunity for discussion is alarming.

Anyway, for those concerned about all the threads and discussions - relax - this is how we prevent bad ideas from taking hold and how we refine good ideas into great ones.

[Thangorn]

Anyway, for those concerned about all the threads and discussions - relax - this is how we prevent bad ideas from taking hold and how we refine good ideas into great ones.

+1 QFT.

I'd rather see an extended period of reasonable discussion to hash out and delineate issues now, rather than have an organisational implosion down the track. Accepting funds and buying communal gear is a new direction for ALFA, its important we nail it.

[yavanion]

As a note, it be better that the persons that have a "expense" for keeping alfa running set up a account... Example HDM BoB runs cormyr, this costs him X money, so bob and other people like him set up a contibution banner, then its free for every one where to send a small donation...

My point is, if bob takes the money and runs, he still had a cost for doing what he did for alfa, so its a win loose situation anyway... and people contributing will know where their money is going...

Also, all contributions MUST/SHOULD be anounumous to prevent donators for buying/gaining unfair atention ower those that dont give, some people are richer some are poor...

[White Warlock]

There is something i brought up a long time ago, which can be done 'immediately,' even 'while' we debate this issue of incorporation.

Look at this PAYPAL phpBBS add-on: http://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopi ... 5&t=473536

In addition to the above, a page on the website can be created, posting all the paypal accounts of all 'standing' hosters. This same page can also be linked to the Milonic script above, under Membership. Every news flash could pose, at the end, a reminder about donating to these critical ALFA contributors.

People want to donate 'directly' to those who are doing the hosting, not donate to a general project and 'hope' the money goes where it was intended. I understand the 'basics' associated with Zicada's proposal, about hosting all or most of the mods, website, and forums, on a single uber computer, but the proposal was poorly presented, and thus all these polls really aren't addressing what he has planned.

We're being asked, with these polls, to provide clear and definitive answers to vague and ambiguous questions. Instead of banning me for two days because i pose contentious, yet concise, argument, how about creating a project to formulate a viable proposal? With full consideration, Zicada, these polls, and the weak proposals presented therein, are the reason said debates aren't going as planned. Don't shut people up because you don't like what they are saying.

[White Warlock]

Polls are heavily dependent upon the presentation of said information. In this case, the proposals. There may be many that are voting without reading the details of said proposals, because the poll reflects something different than what is discussed, so it could be misconstrued in that fashion. Also, the incorporation idea was kicked down rather quickly, because there was 'nothing' within the proposal associated with the poll that provided any degree of insight into it. I.e., no homework. If people think something is not being mindfully approached, they're not going to agree to it. That's common sense.

What i'm saying is, a poll does not reflect the community's feeling on an issue as much as it reflects a community's reaction to how something is being presented. Because of this, and other reasons, the reliability of these polls are compromised.

[zicada]

I wish ya'll would read the first post of the thread before posting, guys.

It says pretty clearly that this thread was not intended for discussion/debate. We allready have 2 threads for that, or one could start a new one. Further posts here that do not correspond to the initial post will be removed.

This poll relates to the first post, wich you are supposed to read carefully before posting anything at all.

Ive had my questions answered through polls and interaction with you guys now. Thanks for participating.

We know now, that ALFA will not be incorporated, and we know that many people are still interested in making donations. These are good news.

Now its time to look more closely at what our target products might be, and how to best implement the donation system itself.

[Senor T]

I don't want someone to be legally responsible for my small amount of cash I'd like to throw at the project when I get the whim. I think this means incorporation is the way to go, but I'm not entirely sure. I just want to give someone a little money in order to help things run better, since I am by no means a tech guy myself. But I also don't want someone being legally responsible for misuse of my 10 bucks here and there. If I donate, I don't want it to turn into a fiasco. So there's my <post reason>. If I messed this up, sorry, but I don't have 2 hours to sit and ponder and read about this, but I would like to donate.