Vendrin wrote:If we do get more mods though, at least pick people who have been around for a long time. That was the problems with the last time we had new moderators, they were all new people.
Not entirely true Vendrin, as I was one of those mods and I am not new. And just for clarification's sake, the problem was not with the mods, the problem was the mods were told to moderate in a particular way, but when they did they were not backed. I didn't quit being a mod because the vocal minority of jerks here intimidated me, I quit, in a nutshell, because of the lack of support which was promised to be there but as soon as the heat came, wasn't.
I Don't want the community presence in IRC split between two channels, I think it is important to be able to maintain a unified and functional central place where everyone is welcome and is useful in finding other ALFAns.
I am also not in favour of heavy moderation in most situations. Usually the bickering in #alfa is between two stubborn jackasses who hold opposing political beliefs or whatever, and this bickering has little to do with the game and I don't really see a reason to moderate it unless things get threatening or very personal.
The only situation I find that needs more attention is ensuring new players do not get mocked for asking "stupid" questions. A few weeks ago I was really irked when a bunch of people were mocking someone for suggesting he would make a good aligned surface drow. Instead of informing him that the character concept would be difficult to achieve this player was treated to 40 minutes of ranting on how much everyone hates drizzt and how good drow should be banned and DMs should auto-kill such monstrosities.
I guess what I'm saying is that I don't much care if the old veterans abuse each other as they are prone to do, but it thoroughly pisses me off to think #alfa could be used to drive off potential players simply because they ask a "stupid" question.
Halrin wrote:
I guess what I'm saying is that I don't much care if the old veterans abuse each other as they are prone to do, but it thoroughly pisses me off to think #alfa could be used to drive off potential players simply because they ask a "stupid" question.
The problem here, is even if two veterans are mocking each other, new comers wouldn't know that they are veterans, they wouldn't know that they are joking.
They would just stay on chat for a while and then disconnect thinking that ALFA is a place where people mock each other.
That's the main problem with all this happening in "the official" ALFA channel.
I see your point Hialmar, and I understand it is a nightmare in terms of public relations.
I just think dividing channels intrinsically means we've lost control of the first one. And if we're in such a sorry state where we can 'lose control' of the community's official channel then what hope is there for productive discource elsewhere.
I'm not the biggest fan of moderation, but moderating all official alfa channels equally is essential, I don't think having two official channels with two different 'ratings' sends the right idea either.
The message here should be that no one can act maliciously in an official public channel that is meant to facilitate the communities needs not to be used as someones personal soap box.
I am in agreement with Halrin. And for those noodleheads that think i'm bonkers for heavy modding in chat, sorry to ruin your fun, but that's not where i'm coming from. I think it needs to be moderated, because there are occasions where people completely fail to respect the 'longterm' needs of this community, not because i'm against certain members (or ex-members). The website and chat are the easy-access faces of ALFA (you have to register an account to access the forums) and thus, for Public Relations purposes, it is absolutely essential everyone in ALFA respect the need to keep the chat room hospitable.
If you try and wipe out the things mentioned in the last couple of posts, then whether it be official or not, you will likely end up with 2 channels anyway. The chatroom is where we can cool off, chill out, talk about whatever with others in the community. It will get heated, it will occasionally get hostile, but having that freedom in chat when we have it nowhere else in the community is essential.
Your not just talking moderation as the current policy would have it now, your talking even harder and more prickish moderation.
Moderate the channel to hell and you will end up with 2 channels and an even more fractured community, whether Hialmar sanctions it or not.
Swift wrote:
Moderate the channel to hell and you will end up with 2 channels and an even more fractured community, whether Hialmar sanctions it or not.
You know Swift, you accused me of FUD in my previous post, and yet that's all you've been doing throughout this thread. What a friggin' hypocrit.
Swift wrote:
Moderate the channel to hell and you will end up with 2 channels and an even more fractured community, whether Hialmar sanctions it or not.
You know Swift, you accused me of FUD in my previous post, and yet that's all you've been doing throughout this thread. What a friggin' hypocrit.
lawls
I have opposed moderation, argued that we do not need it and predicted (with some small confidence) what may well happen should forum like moderation be extended to chat (either a second channel will appear outside the domain of Infra, or chat will get even quieter than it has become over the last couple of months)
Meanwhile a few posts ago, without presenting any proof whatsoever, you essentially proclaim that some of those that are against chat moderation are only continuing to make it an issue to scare off potential moderation volunteers. Hence, i call bullshit on that claim, unless you have privately discussed the matter with those against moderation and discovered that it is their hidden motive. I doubt that.
This debate has long past it's usefulness. Both sides have presented their arguements (and repeated many times over, I might add). Can we have this thread locked, before it deteriates further? Unless someone has a new argument that we haven't heard a dozen times already - in which case, I'd love to hear it
Vendrin wrote:If we do get more mods though, at least pick people who have been around for a long time. That was the problems with the last time we had new moderators, they were all new people.
Not entirely true Vendrin, as I was one of those mods and I am not new. And just for clarification's sake, the problem was not with the mods, the problem was the mods were told to moderate in a particular way, but when they did they were not backed. I didn't quit being a mod because the vocal minority of jerks here intimidated me, I quit, in a nutshell, because of the lack of support which was promised to be there but as soon as the heat came, wasn't.
Vendrin wrote:If we do get more mods though, at least pick people who have been around for a long time. That was the problems with the last time we had new moderators, they were all new people.
Not entirely true Vendrin, as I was one of those mods and I am not new. And just for clarification's sake, the problem was not with the mods, the problem was the mods were told to moderate in a particular way, but when they did they were not backed. I didn't quit being a mod because the vocal minority of jerks here intimidated me, I quit, in a nutshell, because of the lack of support which was promised to be there but as soon as the heat came, wasn't.
