Brainstorm: The Next Evolution of Alfa

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Ronan
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Re: Brainstorm: The Next Evolution of Alfa

Post by Ronan »

Veilan wrote:...I was treated to a feast instead (even if it nearly was of my character's brain)...
Nearly :(

I never wanted to be a campaign DM, but it is very hard to run involved plots in a PW setting. Also, as a PW DM (remember when we had 15 people on BG every night?) I often found myself logging in to deal with things I'd no interest in, such as CvC with OOC hostilities, crafting, or tech rezes. These activities typically only deal with 1-2 PCs and so are an inefficient use of a DM's time, except where they help facilitate play for larger parties.

The dichotomy between campaign and PW play within the same PW is real, IMO. There are a number of incompatibilities I can think of:
  • PW DMing requires coordination of canon and rules (both in-game and out) across all DMs. This is a lot of work, especially when modules or ALFA policies need updating.
  • Campaign play requires either very little character death, lesser death penalties or fast progression up to the average level. ALFA currently takes the approach of having very little to no character death in prepared (campaign) parties, while I argue lessening death penalties, more frequent deaths and faster progression (i.e. EfU) would have been better.
  • PW play requires a centralized vault, and is aided by a central database. These two things help make ALFA's technical content an order of magnitude more complex than other worlds, and they are largely useless in campaign play (though now that the systems are in place, maintaining them is not overly difficult).
That said, nothing (mechanically) prevents us from letting DMs do whatever they want on ALFA's current resources, treating each campaign as its own separate world. I guess log parsing would become harder, if anyone still does that.

ALFA consistently chose complex, complete solutions over simpler, less rigorous ones, (e.g., the pricing and wealth standards) and with an aging NWN2 the result is a PW no one wants to run (except for the B-game...). Its too much work for too little reward. I suppose this shouldn't come as a surprise, since the people making the decisions (admin, and the largely-inactive people who vote them in) aren't the same people paying for them in-game. I'm not trying to call out current admin here, most of these decisions were made long ago.

Simply put campaign play is easier. You also don't have the same sort of coordination problem hoping a critical mass of players and DMs will randomly encounter each other.
Zelknolf
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Re: Brainstorm: The Next Evolution of Alfa

Post by Zelknolf »

Ronan wrote:I never wanted to be a campaign DM, but it is very hard to run involved plots in a PW setting. Also, as a PW DM (remember when we had 15 people on BG every night?) I often found myself logging in to deal with things I'd no interest in, such as CvC with OOC hostilities, crafting, or tech rezes. These activities typically only deal with 1-2 PCs and so are an inefficient use of a DM's time, except where they help facilitate play for larger parties.
Well, we also had policies that basically required DM attention in at least the CvC circumstance (you could show up, and thus be required to respond, or you could not show up and they could follow the "no DM is available" process and then you're stuck dealing with the aftermath), which is no longer the case, and we do have a lot of crafting automated now. I'd even probably automate the uncomplicated/common cases to match a real effort to advertise and attract players and people promising to DM like it's a persistent world again; there was even talk of attracting players instead of fellating the ones we've got a couple pages back. We could... y'know... do some of that stuff.



We also have the Advanced Log Parser-- so running exotic "whatever I feel like" campaigns would quickly flood all of the feedback there, and things that HDMs actually have to respond to would just drown in the alert fatigue. Though we could try to exclude that if we're trying to go with a campaign PC proposal like Twin Axes' (which is essentially letting players control NPCs; they're only about during the session and under the immediate supervision of the DM who is unambiguously in charge of the character's stuff), because we'd have some clear boundaries about who they are and when we expect to see them. Personally, I'd rather put that effort into handling the crap people don't like about being a PW-style DM, and actually recruit or elect some people who will actually advertise for us.
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orangetree
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Re: Brainstorm: The Next Evolution of Alfa

Post by orangetree »

Make it possible to 'earn' a win. I've never had that on alfa. The only victories I've had were given out of sympathy, and sympathy ran out.
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Adanu
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Re: Brainstorm: The Next Evolution of Alfa

Post by Adanu »

Darkmystic wrote:Earlier I was told I could not join and was not allowed to. Same with Adanu's campaign, he told me that im not allowed to join gaming under him. So as far I can see, restrictive campaigns.
I had, and still have, no desire for your overly dramatic penchant to martyr yourself over trivial things, and I've also refused to DM Duncan and thinkpig while they were here as well.

If you want me to allow you into my campaigns, then check the ego at the door and I'll bring you in on a trial basis.

Deal?

I still say campaign PCs would help.
First Character: Zyrus Meynolt, the serene Water Genasi berserker. "I am the embodiment of the oceans; serene until you summon the storm." Zyrus: http://tinyurl.com/9emdbnd

Second Character: Damien Collins, the atypical druid. "What? Being a stick in the mud is boring. No pun intended grins"

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Heero
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Re: Brainstorm: The Next Evolution of Alfa

Post by Heero »

Has any sort of consensus been reached as yet or have we all just drawn our lines in the sand while refusing to budge?
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Adanu
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Re: Brainstorm: The Next Evolution of Alfa

Post by Adanu »

Not much to talk about without removing the PW aspect. We don't pull in dozens of members anymore, and the social types hate the idea of potentially losing PCs, so they're on the non-permadeath servers. We're not going to get anywhere until the socialites and PW logging-in-for-the-heck-of-it types admit that their brand of ALFA has been diminished for at least a year now.

I'm a grand campaign DM with a side of crafter for practicalities sake. I'm not altogether interested in logging in for the sake of logging in without something to actually talk about.
First Character: Zyrus Meynolt, the serene Water Genasi berserker. "I am the embodiment of the oceans; serene until you summon the storm." Zyrus: http://tinyurl.com/9emdbnd

Second Character: Damien Collins, the atypical druid. "What? Being a stick in the mud is boring. No pun intended grins"

Western Heartlands HDM: On break. PM for emergencies
Zelknolf
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Re: Brainstorm: The Next Evolution of Alfa

Post by Zelknolf »

The "logging-in-for-the-heck-of-it types" are not refusing to admit that ALFA's population is lower (it's about half of what it was in 2012; that's plainly visible in black and white, and the pivot point is the death of the authentication server). I am refusing to maintain servers with vastly more overhead than is required for the type of play the "grand campaign" types are advocating. That is actual, tangible, difficult work-- work that the "grand campaign" types do not contribute meaningfully to, and are proposing to complicate further.

If you want persistency, you've got to accept the restrictions of persistency.

If you want instances, you've got to actually put up instances.
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Heero
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Re: Brainstorm: The Next Evolution of Alfa

Post by Heero »

So what are we going to do? I guess nada?
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Rumple C
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Re: Brainstorm: The Next Evolution of Alfa

Post by Rumple C »

Business (falling) as normal, hope for nwn3 (obsidian/paizo) announcement within a year.

More players wont happen. Campaigns may keep some folk engaged on a regular basis.

With such a limited pool of potential players to draw from now (alfa population) rule changes will have negligible effect in player hours.

There is a lot to be said for A) Relax, allow (cyclical boom and bust) nature to run it's course and realize that Alfa will grow again under the next platform (whenever it happens) and B) Can always engage your alfa buddies to play other games together and maintain community.
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Zelknolf
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Re: Brainstorm: The Next Evolution of Alfa

Post by Zelknolf »

Heero wrote:So what are we going to do? I guess nada?
Those who wish unrestricted campaigns already have the tools to accomplish the listed goals, and doing so with those tools won't violate any of the concerns of those who do not wish change. It seems that there's a fairly-obvious path forward, and it's in those who want change asking themselves if the results are worth their effort. I'm guessing "no," or they'd be doing it already. So probably nothing will be done there.


It's likely that Castano will return from his trip still interested in the NWN2 sublicencing idea, so that's a thing, and we'd probably expect an uptick in usual development that aligns (even if it ultimately flops, you try to clean your home before having guests over right?) followed by some attempts to advertise in narrative-focused communities (I will suggest roleplaying and fanfiction forums; generic gaming sites seem to generate very little response). Hard to predict what will happen with the DM team, but it's September now, so I'd predict little change on the ranks for the remainder of the year. PA side seems stable-- low population and no CvC prevents a lot of their need for action.
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Heero
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Re: Brainstorm: The Next Evolution of Alfa

Post by Heero »

Rumple C wrote:hope for nwn3 (obsidian/paizo) announcement within a year.
Is this really a possibility?
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FoamBats4All
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Re: Brainstorm: The Next Evolution of Alfa

Post by FoamBats4All »

Heero wrote:
Rumple C wrote:hope for nwn3 (obsidian/paizo) announcement within a year.
Is this really a possibility?
It could be.
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Heero
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Re: Brainstorm: The Next Evolution of Alfa

Post by Heero »

I did some Googling after Rump brought it up and it does seem at least there is moderate hope for a successor. I hadnt heard about this teaming up of the two.
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15.December.2014: Never forget.

The Glorious 12.August.2015: Always Remember the Glorious 12th.
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Heero
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Re: Brainstorm: The Next Evolution of Alfa

Post by Heero »

If its Pathfinder based, tho, hopefully this gives yall license to scrap the Pillars and ACR ruleset and start fresh.
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Re: Brainstorm: The Next Evolution of Alfa

Post by FoamBats4All »

There are two talks. First, a partnership with Pathfinder. Second, a talk of revisiting the Neverwinter Nights series.

Unlikely to see a Neverwinter Nights with Pathfinder. Might see a NWN3 and a Pathfinder game.
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