How to bring back the people?

[Ksiel]

It seems like there has been quite a few ideas put out from one end of the spectrum to the other. Now that we have done so, what will be done with this input?

Should some formal polls be created and then that data brought to admin. for a discussion amongst them?

Some that come to mind:
1 pc vs 2 pc
Better OAS server: MS, BG, WHL, TSM?
Add to current servers vs Open Expansion
Level 1 vs level 2 starting point
Bio Exp - Yes or No

[Heero]

I think what we really learned from this topic is that everyone has a different idea of what ALFA should be.

[Swift]

3. Increase lethality. ALFA feels like its afraid to kill people. That's boring, and creates a static gameworld. Once low levels are fun again, less people will complain about dying. Those that still complain can reroll cleric.

If we are too lethal at low levels, people complain. People have called repeatedly in this thread for a higher starting level in part because its apparently still too slow and too easy to die when starting at level 1.
It we are too lethal at high levels, we are being unfair because people will complain that we are draining their finances on rezzes. I still maintain that permadeath only exists so long as a PC does not have the money to come back. When given the choice, most will come back rather than start over.

Lethality in the game is a no win situation to us and has been ever since we toned things down from the old, old days of NWN1 when chickens in SD became legendary for their strength and agility.

[Bohemond]

People complain about level 1 because it's boring and pointless the way the its setup now, not because its too dangerous.

-1 constitution?

How is lethality in the game a no win situation? because people complain? its not the complainers who leave.

[Adanu]

People complain about level 1 because it's boring and pointless the way the its setup now, not because its too dangerous.

I'd have to agree. Exodus switched to a level 3 start and I heard not one complaint about it.

As for lethality.... Honestly , I think people would be more inclined to die and not get angry over it if rewards were easier to come by. There will always be people who don't like dying and people who don't mind starting over... the best we can do is give some options for both types so that no one feels left out. More DMs, and more freedom to let DMs do rewards and stories as they see fit within reason would probably help. As it is, the 'trickle' of DM loot doesn't help the hoarding mentality that has grown prevalent. Make stuff easier to come by, and you make it easier for people to manage their PC as they wish, and retire when they wish. We're here for RP, not to hoard, right?

[zilvai]

Thre friends that stuck around between a day to a week whom I invited left because the server was too lethal and they felt they could not play a game because they worried too much to lose their char. So yeah... da heck with this lethality bogus - really.

[SwordSaintMusashi]

We're entering broken record territory with this thread now (the same ideas being resaid by the same people in different manners).

If you have an idea, make a single, concise post with your ideas and let's leave it at that so that it can be reviewed by the people that do that.

[Bohemond]

I'm not talking about low level lethality. It's ludicrous that a new member must sit in a tavern rping picking his nose for a month before engaging in a meaningful way. ALFA will never have numbers as long as this is so.

I'm talking about PC's never dying once they reach a certain level. If they never die, and there is no more content for them at their level, and low level is so painful/stingy that they would rather quit then start over, then they are effectively playing themselves out of ALFA.

[oldgrayrogue]

How about we allow DMs to DM on all servers other than their "declared" home server and relax the 30 day rule? Or do away with it? Instead of the current 30 day rule any DM who wants to travel with their PC to a server they have DM'd on must notify and get permission from the server HDM. Are we really that concerned that our DMs are going to metagame to hurt other players? Gain advantage for their own toons?

This would (hopefully) increase DM coverage across servers. Honestly, I would be fine with DM where you play, but am probably in a minority there.

One thing lost in this thread (and other threads like it over the years) is that we often see drop offs in play over certain times of the year. For me I am dealing with year end business stuff, office and client holiday parties, family responsibilities and family holiday visits. I am sure our college age or grad school members are dealing with exams or travel home for holiday recess etc. So yeah the numbers are a bit down, but chill out, we have been through this before.

All of that said, I do like the multiple PC option (for selfish reasons I get bored with just 1), I like the idea of greater rewards coupled with greater lethality. That is brilliant! I was a level 3 with a cool flaming sword and I died! Well, if I can reroll and get another cool item for my new toon so what? A big part of the issue with ALFA, beyond people being really attached to that one PC they want to play above all others, is that people are also really attached to the loot they have accumulated because it is really hard to get in ALFA and takes a real long time.

So yeah up the gold and cool items all you want -- just kill more people more often. And not just low levels. PC turnover is very healthy for a PW. There is all this talk about these other "populated" servers. Have you ever played there? All the regulars have that one uber equipped level 20+ PC that they whip out whenever there is a big event going on. New players learn quick to build that unkillable concept you like most and grind it to uberness so you too can slay hordes of dragons when the DMs come out to play! At least that has been my experience, having played on a few of these other "popular" servers.

We need MORE STORY. Yeah tons of gold and cool vorpal swords and what not are cool -- lets face we are all D&D nerds! We like that crap! I want more of it too! But story is key. When PC's turnover and start over regularly the PLAYERS get new fresh stories going. Its not all on the DMs to entertain everyone. I know this view is very unpopular to those who can't even contemplate the death of their beloved PC, but if all of us are regularly starting over, issues with level disparity, leveling rates and what not are out the window.

We advertise as a "hardcore permadeath roleplay based" persistent world. But to me "hardcore" doesn't mean it just takes a long time to level and the best gear you have is +1 or +2. It means RISK! And REWARDS when you take risk! Risk in adventure or in pure social roleplay is what makes it fun -- at least for me. That adrenaline rush you get when Holy crap, I might die! Or Holy crap that paladin is going to find out that I'm a murdering Cyricist assassin! That is what makes ALFA great IMO. The story and the immersion to the story that permadeath brings. Levels, gold, loot all that other stuff can be rearranged any way we want. Up the story and the stakes and their will always be players logging in.

[oldgrayrogue]

I'm not talking about low level lethality. It's ludicrous that a new member must sit in a tavern rping picking his nose for a month before engaging in a meaningful way. ALFA will never have numbers as long as this is so.

I'm talking about PC's never dying once they reach a certain level. If they never die, and there is no more content for them at their level, and low level is so painful/stingy that they would rather quit then start over, then they are effectively playing themselves out of ALFA.

QFT -- ALFA's risk reward template is completely upside down.

[Stormbring3r]

I'm not talking about low level lethality. It's ludicrous that a new member must sit in a tavern rping picking his nose for a month before engaging in a meaningful way. ALFA will never have numbers as long as this is so.

I'm talking about PC's never dying once they reach a certain level. If they never die, and there is no more content for them at their level, and low level is so painful/stingy that they would rather quit then start over, then they are effectively playing themselves out of ALFA.

If a low level does not risk a little how do you gain xp? Find a grouo to RP and explore with... Thats always helps. If you set around a tavern all day you still get xp but it is alot slower plus there is no reward as far as gold or items. I came back to ALFA and I have lost a few PC's in the process. This is not RL and if your toon dies make a new one. Simple as that.. If every one stopped after thier first toon died then no one would play.. ALFA wants to creat a world that was as close to PnP as possible. Or thats what I think ALFA is about. And I enjoy ALFA and will enjoy more if they put rideable horses in game.

[Ronan]

For people complaining of lethality, examples would be helpful. BG has, for example, plenty of risk-less content. Is it all too boring? I know much of paazin's content is very lethal (yes, he kills more PCs than me, just indirectly), but much of it is not. Keep in mind I'm not very familiar with the spawns or statics, as I've done and created nearly none of them (I've never set foot on the server as a player). I really have no idea how well BG supports lowbies, or not.

I will defy the SSM and repeat myself: ALFA does not have the resources to support a full level range (1-20) of player groups. Because of this we economize and support the most common and most easily-DMed levels, which tends to be 5-10ish. This means the lowbies have a rough time surviving and the highbies get bored. I don't see any way to resolve this situation without altering PC level distribution (though a level cap, higher starting level, curved XP rewards, or whatever) or dramatically changing the ruleset to make levels closer in power. Allowing multiple PCs will certainly help this a lot, though you'll always get those people who would rather continue to gain power for their main than play with an alt.

Whatever our starting level, we need to support it and support it well. ALFA cannot survive if re-rolling is a chore.

Non-combat challenges can be great ways to get the lowbies engaged when they're partied with fighters or clerics or the like. However when you get clever players with lots of skills and spells at their disposal, the highbies still dominate. Where they don't dominate are out-of-ruleset challenges. For these reasons I prefer to challenge the player over the PC.

[Rotku]

I think one thing we should do is put a level cap in place. One of the biggest things that makes DMing difficult is the large (and ever increasing) difference between high level PCs and low level PCs. If we put a cap at level 7, that will be a big step to solving that.

Yes, by making people who play toons over level 7 leave the server. Forced retirement is not the answer. If ALFA institutes a level cap, it should be at like 15, not something super low like 7. Some builds don't even become useful at 7. Besides, putting in a cap won't solve anything, it'll just make uncomfortable DMs marginally more likely to DM someone in their comfort zone.

A sad reflection of ALFA's current advancement rates. There was a time when getting to 15 would be a mind-boggling achievement.

And FWIW, I never suggested forced retirement. If you constrain the level ranges, it makes life better for all. The DM is able to plan better, you get more exciting stories told because risks match up properly and life just becomes more enjoyable. Most adventurers should be long dead/retired by the time they reach 10 anyhow.

What was that server, a while back, that had a level cap? I know a lot of their members came here when their doors shut.

[Ithildur]

Do not listen to 'has beens'. Listen to people that have played the game recently.
I am a disgruntled lurker now.

who still has sand in her clit

Maxcell, noooo... this place has gotten to you too...

A sad reflection of ALFA's current advancement rates. There was a time when getting to 15 would be a mind-boggling achievement.

If it truly is that bad lately, we can take some solace in that there's other forms of 'currency' than levels; a lvl 15 in ALFA currently is probably worth half of a lvl 15 from ALFA1 in many of our hearts. I don't care what their levels are; PCs that shoot through levels while doing nothing really more noteworthy than farming orcs probably don't impress most ALFAns.

[Galadorn]

Getting to 15 or higher still is in my opinion quite a difficult thing, if only a LONG HAUL, and should be. Also depends on how much DMing (and the size of the DM awards!) you get after 10th,etc.

I don't know the numbers but I sure hope there are not "many" 15th levels on the go, but also in all honesty, I don't care about that either. I only hope because it should be very rare, or at least take a long time.

Being here a long time, I remember super high level PCs were in awe back in ALFA1, and I still want to feel that awe when a PC who has been played a long long time, 2-3+ years etc, and has done some amazing shit, walks by. When a PC walks by who's 15th+ in a year, I look the other way with a yawn. I don't "feel" as if that PC earned that "awe". Just me. Sorry. I also do not feel the awe when a PC walks by who was rezzed more than once. Or if it was not extremely IC to rezz that PC.

A cap of 7th level? yikes really?

I keep under the radar as much as my sarcastic self can, which I admit is not easy, but I also mind my own business in game as well. Many people get pissed at me for denying meeting up through tells because to me that's not realistic. I didn't and don't mind. I made him that way. But I don't think because I don't look for others 100% of the time to RP with whoever is on at the time of login, does not mean i'm not having fun just playing on the solo. Part of the plan 2 years ago was to make a PC that "got found", not one who finds you. The plan also included surviving, and becoming tough, carrying lots of goodies that can shred.

High level is still hard! Leave the cap alone. If it takes me 4 more years to get level 15, hell I earned it in patience alone. I fully expect to go up 1 level a year with my current PC, and I do not mind, as each one of those levels will certainly be very satisfying to attain.

It'll take IKP 25 years to do that, but won't Tam deserve a little "awe" when that happens?

And my PC's past has been ANYTHING but easy. Trust me. He might sit at campfires for 3 hours a day real time, yea, that's Bu... but.... when the action hits, it is always lethal.



umm.....what were we talking about?