Probably get locked, but oh well

This is a general open discussion for all ALFA, Neverwinter Nights, and Dungeons & Dragons topics.

Moderator: ALFA Administrators

Zelknolf
Chosen of Forumamus, God of Forums
Posts: 6139
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:04 pm

Re: Probably get locked, but oh well

Post by Zelknolf »

I have to express at least some degree of suspicion at the notion of the "player base" enforcing rules-- that doesn't sound, by any description, like rules or order. That's persecution.

We can indeed rely on the existing dispute process to handle things-- we've been doing that more and, as you note, our PAs manage to slap some kind of closure onto the vast majority of complaints that come into their offices, but usually at significant personal expense. Consider the state of ALFA2's PAs on their way out of office (Mirabai, Demson (half term), Rotku (other half), Rotku again, Audark, Oldgrayrogue, Vendrin, Rotku again, Daniemn)-- it's not kind to these people, and I note that we don't see very many second terms in ALFA2 (Rotku being the one crazy enough to do it).

Perhaps the cold merciless mechanics of a scripted system lacks that charming 'hand-crafted' feel, but computers take no emotional toll when telling someone to cool it after three statics in an hour, or when saying that goblin #20 isn't worth as much XP as goblin #1. Computers don't protect their friends or persecute their rivals; they don't miss anyone for lack of reportiong, attention, or willpower. You can tell a computer that its mother does depraved things for your gratification and it doesn't much notice. Their action is immediate, their feedback is direct, and that's one less piece of drama sitting on a PA's lap. That's why I designed a system with PA Dan-- shocking, I know, but I don't like watching people suffer-- and why I want to know if the next PA would use it.

I would note that this is something that doesn't happen without a de facto majority admin vote: DMA must approve of the rewards, PA must think it's useful, TA must approve of the system, and LA must at least approve enough to not veto it (though, given previous conversations with Veilan, I suspect there will be more support than grudgingly accepting that it's not worth bringing out the veto power). I would like to think that we're a compitent enough group that we won't push through a doomsday (I also like to think that we're good enough at what we do that things will be better when we're done).




Responding a nitpicky point:
But logging into and out of BG every 7 minutes or so is ridiculous.
This will cost you somewhere between a quarter and half of your RPXP. If you know of someone doing it to try to exploit the system, laugh mightily at that person. Tell me about 'em, too; I want to laugh too. Like Bender.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0
(the moral of the story is, of course, that the ability to delay gratification is the primary indicator of success in everything)
Stormbring3r
Owlbear
Posts: 538
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:31 pm
Location: Morriston Fire Chief

Re: Probably get locked, but oh well

Post by Stormbring3r »

Wasn't pointing fingures or being nit picky. Was jsut using a valid example of what I have been seeing. Not sure why Foam got all pissy when I mentioned someone logging in and out of BG every 7 minutes and don't really care either. I was just making a point. Needless whinning is uncalled for.


Who the EFIN cares who is what level? Not me!

Does it EFIN matter? No!

I could care less if Joe Bob has a 20th level Pally and sits around watching the grass grow. If he RP's or does alot of quest it does not hurt my feelings one bit. If he is DM HOGGING then so be it.

Lets remember what the EFIN we are here for and thats to have EFIN FUN!

And I guess I need to amke an KEMO pic so my toon can decide what he EFIN looks like.
ALFA NWN1 Notable PC's
Jenna Steel (dead)
Marcus Agent of Mask (dead)
NWN2 PC's
Current PC.... Merin (Merry) Gwinkill
Will Menen (Dead)

DM MS
User avatar
oldgrayrogue
Retired
Posts: 3284
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:09 am
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Probably get locked, but oh well

Post by oldgrayrogue »

I am ashamed and more than a little disturbed to admit I want to read more about Heero and his friend.







:doh:
User avatar
shad0wfax
Ogre
Posts: 684
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:57 am

Re: Probably get locked, but oh well

Post by shad0wfax »

1) Logging in and out every 7 minutes is worth less XP than staying logged in and roleplaying during that 7 minutes.

2) I've never seen anyone log in and out habitually, although there are a few users who have poor connections or stability problems who occasionally get hit with bursts of network or software disconnects.

3) I can't speak for Foam, but I believe that his point was that this notion of logging in and out every seven minutes for some form of gain in ALFA is not only not happening, but it is not possible, and thus is at best a red herring.

4) This thread needs a locking and a deleting. I sense a trollmoot, and I await the dawn eagerly, when you shall all be turned to stone.
User avatar
oldgrayrogue
Retired
Posts: 3284
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:09 am
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Probably get locked, but oh well

Post by oldgrayrogue »

While people may not be logging in and out every 7 minutes, I'd be willing to bet there are those who stay logged in semi afk, tapping a key every seven minutes or so while they are on IRC, or doing other crap, or watching TV or whatever. In fact, I think Ronan posted in another thread that he has observed PCs just logged in in a room alone for long stretches. He also pointed out that for many PCs RPXP makes up a large % of total XP. Lets be clear, that is purely free riskless XP, that really adds up the more one plays. I mean you don't even have to walk around and collect mushrooms for it. :roll:

As to the scripted dimret, honestly, I am not opposed to it conceptually myself, as long it is not looked at as a replacement for actual enforcement of rules violaters. The reason being that any scripted system can be exploited. Computers are not infallible and we humans are sneakier than they are.
User avatar
Xanthea
Dungeon Master
Posts: 566
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:04 am

Re: Probably get locked, but oh well

Post by Xanthea »

Do people actually want to be farming RPXP? I doubt it. If people are sitting alone in a room then that seems like more of a failing of the server that doesn't have enough content to give people things to do all the time.

I sincerely doubt anyone would pass up DMing in favour of sitting alone in an inn room all day, unless it was a DM that they were already avoiding for other reasons.
User avatar
Rotku
Iron Fist Tyrant
Posts: 6948
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 1:09 am
Location: New Zealand (+13 GMT)

Re: Probably get locked, but oh well

Post by Rotku »

I've just seen something I've never seen before - people accusing Maxcell of trolling.
< Signature Free Zone >
paazin
Fionn In Disguise
Posts: 3544
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:07 am
Location: UTC +2
Contact:

Re: Probably get locked, but oh well

Post by paazin »

Let's keep things a little more on topic; RP 101 would be a wonderful thing to have back in the module.

Writing up tidbits of suggestions of RP and behavior might be also excellent to have in 'Journal' entries upon login or sitting somewhere in the start area. Let's not get to raising accusations and making claims when there is far more productive discussion that can be done.

As far as level rates Admin are still discussing and making up a plan for this; please be patient.
People talk of bestial cruelty, but that's a great injustice and insult to the beasts; a beast can never be so cruel as man, so artistically cruel.
User avatar
Ithildur
Dungeon Master
Posts: 3548
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 7:46 am
Location: Best pizza town in the universe
Contact:

Re: Probably get locked, but oh well

Post by Ithildur »

Rotku wrote:I've just seen something I've never seen before - people accusing Maxcell of trolling.
Welcome back to ALFA noob. :)

I have to admit, when I read the OP I knew Max was going to get poo thrown at him.
Formerly: Aglaril Shaelara, Faerun's unlikeliest Bladesinger
Current main: Ky - something

It’s not the critic who counts...The credit belongs to the man who actually is in the arena, who strives violently, who errs and comes up short again and again...who if he wins, knows the triumph of high achievement, but who if he fails, fails while daring greatly.-T. Roosevelt
t-ice
Dungeon Master
Posts: 2106
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:24 pm

Re: Probably get locked, but oh well

Post by t-ice »

Zelknolf wrote:I have to express at least some degree of suspicion at the notion of the "player base" enforcing rules-- that doesn't sound, by any description, like rules or order. That's persecution.
Enforcing is likely a bad choice of words. Education is probably much better. People might read the rules (or not), but it's the social dynamics of the group working together that shapes how people behave in a team effort such as multiplayer roleplaying. The best way to let people know what's expected of gaming at ALFA is for experienced people to guide them. A tell of "dude isn't that just meta, how about we do this icly like this instead?" from a fellow player will likely go much further than a page of rules or ten scripted messages from the computer. But this gentle group dynamic action only works if otherwise it's about just as well. If the meta action is massively rewarded in-game, the social dynamics will shift and people will turn to encouraging each other to meta. And any who might try to nudge the group away from the bounties will be branded as bores, spoilsports, persecutors with a grudge, and worse.
Zelknolf wrote: That's why I designed a system with PA Dan-- shocking, I know, but I don't like watching people suffer-- and why I want to know if the next PA would use it.
:wtg:
Zelknolf
Chosen of Forumamus, God of Forums
Posts: 6139
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:04 pm

Re: Probably get locked, but oh well

Post by Zelknolf »

t-ice wrote:Enforcing is likely a bad choice of words. Education is probably much better. People might read the rules (or not), but it's the social dynamics of the group working together that shapes how people behave in a team effort such as multiplayer roleplaying. The best way to let people know what's expected of gaming at ALFA is for experienced people to guide them. A tell of "dude isn't that just meta, how about we do this icly like this instead?" from a fellow player will likely go much further than a page of rules or ten scripted messages from the computer. But this gentle group dynamic action only works if otherwise it's about just as well. If the meta action is massively rewarded in-game, the social dynamics will shift and people will turn to encouraging each other to meta. And any who might try to nudge the group away from the bounties will be branded as bores, spoilsports, persecutors with a grudge, and worse.
I'm not sure that this is the best characterization. I recall that, when Basilica started here, he took a mighty pile of garbage for emoting in the third person past-tense-- and we as a community have had vitriolic conflicts over whether it's:
*does something* Says something.
or
Bob does something and says, "Something."
(frankly, I prefer the latter; I've been clipping and hamstringing my writing for the sake of the culture here, but I still have the massive pile of education in the humanities and I'm still the most comfortable writing like it's prose)

Just an example to pick on; but trusting our player base to be a strong control of anything isn't going to work very well, and I don't think it has worked very well in the past.

Mentoring is surely a good thing, though-- maybe our attempts to revive OAS2 will give us more opportunity for that. Easier to build a rapport and comfort with people if you're playing with them while they're trying to get in, and easier to be non-prickly when giving advice to people you have a comfortable rapport with.
User avatar
Heero
Beholder
Posts: 1930
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 9:52 pm

Re: Probably get locked, but oh well

Post by Heero »

I want to DM the OAS2 so that I can instill my own ideals into a new generation of ALFAns that will become my private army of like-minded drones who in turn enable me to defeat my enemies within the community via sheer number of voices and/or votes.
Heero just pawn in game of life.

12.August.2013: Never forget.
15.December.2014: Never forget.

The Glorious 12.August.2015: Always Remember the Glorious 12th.
danielmn
Fionn In Disguise
Posts: 4678
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:08 pm

Re: Probably get locked, but oh well

Post by danielmn »

Heero wrote:I want to DM the OAS2 so that I can instill my own ideals into a new generation of ALFAns that will become my private army of like-minded drones who in turn enable me to defeat my enemies within the community via sheer number of voices and/or votes.
Dammit Heero, shut up and I'll let you in on the deal.... :P
Swift wrote: Permadeath is only permadeath when the PCs wallet is empty.
Zyrus Meynolt: [Party] For the record, if this somehow blows up in our faces and I die, I want a raise

<Castano>: danielnm - can you blame them?
<danielmn>: Yes,
<danielmn>: Easily.

"And in this twilight....our choices seal our fate"
User avatar
maxcell
Githyanki
Posts: 1335
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:44 pm
Location: Pennsylvania GMT -5
Contact:

Re: Probably get locked, but oh well

Post by maxcell »

kid wrote:

Either way.... You promised this will be locked Max.
Well I did say, probably, and as an added incentive to keeping it open, I slept with anyone with moderator rights. (whether they know it or not)
User avatar
fluffmonster
Haste Bear
Posts: 2103
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 11:54 pm
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Re: Probably get locked, but oh well

Post by fluffmonster »

maxcell wrote:
kid wrote:

Either way.... You promised this will be locked Max.
Well I did say, probably, and as an added incentive to keeping it open, I slept with anyone with moderator rights. (whether they know it or not)
He did.

P.S. Max is a bed-wetter.
Built: TSM (nwn2) Shining Scroll and Map House (proof anyone can build!)
Locked