DM Admin Election: Boom's Platform and Q&A

[boombrakh]

According to the ALFA charter, the DM Administrators job is to oversee DMs and Servers, as well as Item Compliance, to handle global plots and quests, and also to approve and discipline DMs. (among other things). Now, this isn't very descriptive of the position as it only outlines the actual areas of influence for the DM Admin. I had wanted to go into this with a bit more meat on my bones and address different issues directly but as it stands, the charter only gives me so much to work with. Instead I hope that as many of you as possible take the oppertunity to ask me as many things as you possibly can and I'll make sure to address them all.

The platform.
"ALFA is a gaming community". The key word here isn't "gaming", but "community". It's not as a lone DM Admin that we can make this community strive, it's through collaboration and that is why it is important to listen to what the community wants and feels and use the trust that has been given to the position of the DM Admin to make the changes that should be made. All while keeping in mind what ALFA stands for and what the original mission was all about.

It is important to note that the NWN2 community wont grow unless we help it grow and to do that we need to be proactive and don't be afraid to make mistakes. Because luckily (or sadly for some ) this isn't real life, which means we get to make do-overs if we do something wrong. What I am saying is that not every decision needs to be contemplated for a long time, as long as people involved understand that it might change if it turned out to be a bad one.

With this in mind, I want to shift focus over to what really is important to me in this community, and that is the stories being told and the memories being created from those stories and what we can do to make that even better.

1. Trust and Global DM's
   It is important trust people you play with, and especially the DM's who make the world around your character come to life. Trust can't just be handed to someone, it has to be earned. But in order to earn that trust, we have to ourselves be a bit more trusting. That's why I propose that we bring back "Global DM's" who has the priviledge to DM on any server they wish. They are just encouraged to not actively DM people they normally play with when they play their own characters. This means, of course, that those DM's who are Global DM's would be allowed to DM on servers they play on.
2. Risk/Reward for Social quests
   Not all risk is taken from going toe to toe against a dragon. Some risk come in the form of social interaction and consequence of that action. One wrong word could get you banned from entering a tavern, another a whole city. These are pretty grave consequences that doesn't come from heavy combat, but rather social roleplaying. I've noticed that there has been a lot less social "quests" lately, possibly because it's not rewarding. But if the DM's were encouraged to actually build social quests and were encouraged to weigh the risk and reward of it as well, then perhaps we'd see more of them.
3. I'm only human.
   Make mistakes. It's ok, we're all just human. Fear of making a mistake seems to some DM's to be crippling. They know how harsh it can be to recieve a reprimand or even a strike in this community. If a mistake has been made, correct it. If you can't, then ask someone for help. Don't let the fear of making a mistake cripple you as a DM because this isn't real life we're dealing with here. One bad choice wont have permanent consequences. In ALFA, we get do-overs.
4. Sponsorships and Co-DM's
   I am contemplating sponsorships for DM's. It means that DM's in good standing who is not a PDM, can "vouch" in lack of a better word, for another DM and give that person DM status. This, of course, is up to the respective HDM to approve or not when it comes to each server. The idea behind this came from me wanting to be someones Co-DM. Not to run my own things, but to be the assisting DM of someone else so that ideas could be discussed on the fly and larger groups of players on different locations can be handled simultaneously. This hopefully gives everyone a better experience in the end.
5. Bank error in your favor – collect 1000xp
   Now, this might still be a bit controversial, and I don't grasp any of the tech required to pull any of it off, but I'd like to give everyone a better chance of survival with their PC's. This wouldn't be issued retroactively to all players, just the ones that are created new. The reasoning behind this is that ALFA can (and should) be a pretty dangerous place to live in, but too many potentially great characters and stories gets lost because of one bad roll and that to me, is a damn shame.

Well, I know I must have missed something, but sure.. Let's open the floor for questions.

- Yes you, there, in the funny hat. What was that question again?

[Swift]

Thank you for running boom. Some questions:

1) Your platform sounds much the same in tone as your platform for Lead Admin some months ago. Alot of big picture ideas (never bad to have) but whose implementation wouldfall outside the realm of the DM Admin. How do you propose to implement these ideas when they fall outside your sphere of DM Admin? (keeping in mind there is already alot of collaboration between admin departments already)

2) Your 5th point, in essence, is to reward contributors with starting at level 2. This would be a fundamental change to ALFA and something that would be up to Lead to approve. How will you implement this when other attempts at change in the past have failed?

3) Keeping in mind that this could easily have been your Lead Admin platform, why run for DM Admin when most of your points could be better accomplished as Lead (or even Player) Admin?

4) DM Admin has always been about keeping the DM corps happy and keeping our servers going strong. Why do you propose expanding the DMA role to also encompass areas that already exist under other admin?


Other points: Global DMs can already exist and run plots if the HDMs accept them. HDMs already have the liberty to decide what level of DM (Provisional or Full) a new DM can be, eg many DMs that have stepped down and then returned are not forced to be Provisional DMs a second time.

[boombrakh]

2) Your 5th point, in essence, is to reward contributors with starting at level 2. This would be a fundamental change to ALFA and something that would be up to Lead to approve. How will you implement this when other attempts at change in the past have failed?

I'll just address this quickly before diving into the rest. That is a dumb sentence that I opted not to use, but copy+paste enough times without proof reading and you're bound to make mistakes. I'll just refer you to #3 there

I'm not asking to do it to just some, but to everyone. There, that's sorted out. Now on to the rest!

PS. Thank you for pointing it out early on in the race

[Swift]

I'm not asking to do it to just some, but to everyone. There, that's sorted out. Now on to the rest!

Thanks for the clarification though the question raises still remains, as starting at level one has been a fundamental, core principle of ALFA since it's inception and whose change would be outside of the DMA alone to decide on.

[boombrakh]

Hi Swift, and thank you for your questions.

1) Your platform sounds much the same in tone as your platform for Lead Admin some months ago. Alot of big picture ideas (never bad to have) but whose implementation wouldfall outside the realm of the DM Admin. How do you propose to implement these ideas when they fall outside your sphere of DM Admin? (keeping in mind there is already alot of collaboration between admin departments already)

You are correct in that it does seem to go in the same tone as my platform for Lead Admin some months ago and I think the reason for that is my underlying attitude towards the community and project as a whole. When I look at my "big picture" ideas presented, I don't see them falling outside the realm of DM Admin influence. If you would be so kind as to clarify some, i'll be more than willing to answer.

3) Keeping in mind that this could easily have been your Lead Admin platform, why run for DM Admin when most of your points could be better accomplished as Lead (or even Player) Admin?

I beg to differ. Some of the things could (and in my opinion, should) be applied to any Admin, DM, or player alike and I think the reason why it might be that way is because I don't feel that it is beneficial to place everything in neat little boxes and label them, but to bridge the gaps between different positions and come together for a more productive result.

As to the comment that this could have been my Lead Admin platform, I present you with yet another perplexed look of confusion upon my graceful face. The points i raise are very much within the realm of DM Admin's sphere of influence, or has the job description changed the past few years?

According to the Charter, describing the DM Administrator's domain, it says: "Oversight of DMs & Servers including Item Compliance, Global Plots & Quests, DM Approval & Discipline, among others."

4) DM Admin has always been about keeping the DM corps happy and keeping our servers going strong. Why do you propose expanding the DMA role to also encompass areas that already exist under other admin?

I am assuming you are referring to this in regards to giving new characters 1000xp:

I'm not asking to do it to just some, but to everyone. There, that's sorted out. Now on to the rest!

Thanks for the clarification though the question raises still remains, as starting at level one has been a fundamental, core principle of ALFA since it's inception and whose change would be outside of the DMA alone to decide on.

I've been reading through the charter and I don't know if my comprehension simply isn't up to par with what message that is being relayed in those ancient documents, but I don't see much about it being another Admin's domain. That means I am still allowed to persue the matter, correct?
I feel that this would greatly benefit the community as a whole. And if it doesn't, then I'll refer you to #3 again.

Other points: Global DMs can already exist and run plots if the HDMs accept them. HDMs already have the liberty to decide what level of DM (Provisional or Full) a new DM can be, eg many DMs that have stepped down and then returned are not forced to be Provisional DMs a second time.

There is a difference between can already and does already. I believe that I could give this issue the momentum it needs to get started. But the question isn't just about having a Global DM or not, but to allow them to also DM wherever they please. The idea should not only be to DM ongoing Global events, but to be able to run normal DM sessions, no matter where they may happen.

As for the confusion surrounding the HDM having liberties to set status, I completely agree, I missed a word in #4 that specified that a DM in good standing can grant the status of actually being a DM to another player. I have corrected that above. And as always, it is still a matter of HDM acceptance to allow that player to DM on a server.

[Rotku]

Hi Swift, and thank you for your questions.

1) Your platform sounds much the same in tone as your platform for Lead Admin some months ago. Alot of big picture ideas (never bad to have) but whose implementation wouldfall outside the realm of the DM Admin. How do you propose to implement these ideas when they fall outside your sphere of DM Admin? (keeping in mind there is already alot of collaboration between admin departments already)

You are correct in that it does seem to go in the same tone as my platform for Lead Admin some months ago and I think the reason for that is my underlying attitude towards the community and project as a whole. When I look at my "big picture" ideas presented, I don't see them falling outside the realm of DM Admin influence. If you would be so kind as to clarify some, i'll be more than willing to answer.

The only things I see falling outside of the sole realm of the DMA is the starting level. Everything else seems to fit nicely. But as you said, it doesn't mean you can't touch this, it just means you can't say "Let it be!" and it will be.

[Keryn]

Regarding your platform having some experience within ALFA, things are not as simple as that, yes some mistakes can be made, but we all have witnessed how those can impact ALFA severely. And be quite hard to reverse, the playerbase is hard to build, people come and go, but changes as play testers can turn out in a bad result. Also as part of the community I'd say don't change what is not wrong, and ALFA has been quite healthy of late, to me I'd rather see some continuity since it seems to be working, then changes and tests that can damage our community.

Just a Note

I'm pretty sure we had/have global DMs already. And to this day from my experience 99% of the people who wish to DM and show they know what they are doing, get the "Go".
So in essence your proposal is not to bring back Global DMs but to allow DMs to play where they DM.

This is a Masked point seems to me, since the difference here is just that one.
Am I wrong?

On other points..

Co-DMs as pointed by Swift already exist, just a while ago Aitana and Heero decided to apply to DM exactly in this way... as Co-DMs, one helping the other. Thats always how it worked and I see no change here. If the difference is titles and more bureaucracy, its not a good change.
I fail to see in which do you wish to improve?

Social Quests falls on what the DMs like to DM, and you cannot force them to DM in a way, from my experience and lets not forget this is Dungeons and Dragons, social always plays a part, though players can be social all the time, and we have a system in place that reward social RP, maybe we could indeed see some more candy for that RP when a DM is on and it happens from time to time, that is a guideline no doubt that should be encouraged. But otherwise I don't think a DMA should or could enforce DMs to act this or that way.
-How do you pretend to implement this idea other then a pure cosmetic guideline, without entering the the reign of what the DM can do and should be and his own creativity and style?

Like Swift said, change to one of the most core pillar to start at level 2 is something largely discussed, and that was more of a problem back in the day. Nowdays we have loads of statics and people who know ALFA know better then to go out and risk their neck at lvl 1. As we have evidence in these late months the death rate went down and people learn from their mistakes. To me and many more ALFANs lvl 1 start is atm not an issue. People get low levels easy and fast!
-Why do you think this would really give something new to ALFA?

[boombrakh]

Hi Keryn, and thank you for your input and your questions.

Regarding your platform having some experience within ALFA, things are not as simple as that, yes some mistakes can be made, but we all have witnessed how those can impact ALFA severely. And be quite hard to reverse, the playerbase is hard to build, people come and go, but changes as play testers can turn out in a bad result. Also as part of the community I'd say don't change what is not wrong, and ALFA has been quite healthy of late, to me I'd rather see some continuity since it seems to be working, then changes and tests that can damage our community.

I understand the sentiment of "don't fix what aint broken", but the idea of it seems flawed to me. It is important to point out that I am never interested in changing something just for the sake of change. That is as pointless as to keep things the way it is just because it's always been that way. I know from experience that there is always room for improvement. Because if you start thinking that the goal is what's important, then you get too focused on just reaching the goal, and not what you pick up on the way. The experience you gain on your way to the destination you set out might make you change that destination to something else.

In regards to the notion that mistakes can have dire consequences and that the result of those consequences can alienate the playerbase, then I say only that I respectfully disagree. If you're open and honest about things and admit your mistakes, then people tend to oversee them. I can, of course, not speak for everyone, only myself. But I refuse to believe that I am some kind of enlightened being, capable of divine acts of forgiveness. I think that your scenario is only possible when there is too much pride involved.

I'm pretty sure we had/have global DMs already. And to this day from my experience 99% of the people who wish to DM and show they know what they are doing, get the "Go". So in essence your proposal is not to bring back Global DMs but to allow DMs to play where they DM.

In essence, my proposal is to get things going, build momentum, activate people. If it isn't already, then most of the activity in this community should take place ingame. Part of the job, in my opinion, isn't oversight and overlording, but motivating and inspiring your "employees" if you will (in this case, the DM's) to creativity.

This is a Masked point seems to me, since the difference here is just that one. Am I wrong?

You are. I doubt it is still a secret that I tend to want to trust people. This is not a nefarious plot to sneak through "DM where you play". But if I were to be asked on my opinion on the matter, I'd probably say "why not?" and then tell them to be careful not to actively DM their own "faction/group" that they are involved in as a player.

Co-DMs as pointed by Swift already exist, just a while ago Aitana and Heero decided to apply to DM exactly in this way... as Co-DMs, one helping the other. Thats always how it worked and I see no change here. If the difference is titles and more bureaucracy, its not a good change.
I fail to see in which do you wish to improve?

I have no intentions of adding even more acronyms to the community, there are already way too many. But, if this system is already in place, then good for Curm and shame on me for not noticing. If it hasn't been noticed enough though and I had to answer your question (?), then perhaps I'd wish to illuminate the initiative and perhaps promote it even more. Recruit more assisting DM's who prefer not to run things themselves, but together with other DM's.

Social Quests falls on what the DMs like to DM, and you cannot force them to DM in a way, from my experience and lets not forget this is Dungeons and Dragons, social always plays a part, though players can be social all the time, and we have a system in place that reward social RP, maybe we could indeed see some more candy for that RP when a DM is on and it happens from time to time, that is a guideline no doubt that should be encouraged. But otherwise I don't think a DMA should or could enforce DMs to act this or that way.

I actually take a little enjoyment out of the notion that anyone could or should enforce anything in a collaboratory and voluntary community. Perhaps this is the notion that results in what you mention in your first segment, regarding making mistakes. Well, I assure you, I do not plan on enforcing anything but the rules by which we govern this community as described in the charter and ALFA rules. The rest is up to each and everyone.

Also, the excuase that "this is Dungeons and Dragons" isn't a very viable one. If it was, then we wouldn't be playing in ALFA, but basically any other open server. Instead we are playing in a heavy RP community, but with limited coverage on the heavy RP part from the DM side.

-How do you pretend to implement this idea other then a pure cosmetic guideline, without entering the the reign of what the DM can do and should be and his own creativity and style?

I don't understand your question. Do you mean to ask how I intend to implement my idea? If so, it's still not through force. I'd put someone interested in and prefers this kind of DMing in charge of writing and generally coming up with ideas.

Like Swift said, change to one of the most core pillar to start at level 2 is something largely discussed, and that was more of a problem back in the day. Nowdays we have loads of statics and people who know ALFA know better then to go out and risk their neck at lvl 1. As we have evidence in these late months the death rate went down and people learn from their mistakes. To me and many more ALFANs lvl 1 start is atm not an issue. People get low levels easy and fast!

Yes they do, so a thousand starting xp doesn't really matter that much, does it? You mention that according to evidence, the death rate has gone down the past few months. We can't just look at one part of a statistics and come to a viable conclusion from that. How many new players were there, how many low-level players stopped taking risks and waited until they got help from someone more "seasoned". Perhaps that is viewed on by you as people learning from their mistakes, but to me it sounds more like they restrict their gaming. I prefer people having fun, taking risks and getting the rewards. It's easier to justify taking a risk, if you know that a rat wont automatically kill you.

-Why do you think this would really give something new to ALFA?

Because it adds excitement from the get-go. It doesn't present the player with an obstacle they need to overcome before becoming actual adventurers.

[oldgrayrogue]

Hey Boom,

Do you think the current risk/reward system for static and DMd content in ALFA needs changing? Is reward for risk too high? too low? just right? Should the rewards for "adventuring" style RP, where the PCs life is placed at risk in a permadeath world, yield higher reward than "tavern style" RP that benefits from the RPXP script.

Do you think the current availability of magic items is adequate for the Forgotten Realms setting we play in? Should more items be available for purchase IG without a DMs involvement? Less?

What are your views on our wealth standards? If most PCs are below average wealth, do you think anything needs to be done by DMA to address that? By the DMs? How would you expect DMs working under you as DMA to address over wealth standard PCs?

Do you think the PW as currently constituted favors melee and caster builds over skill based builds such as rogues? If so, what if any changes would you implement as DMA to make skill based PCs more useful and relevent? Along these lines, what if anything would you do as DMA to encourage more class diversity among the player base?

What are your views on adding additional PrCs?

What is your position on past proposals to permit 1 surface PC and 1 underdark PC?

What do you believe is the proper role of Standards in ALFA?

Do you believe that player abuses like farming, metagaming or cheating should be addressed by DMs in the first instance, or should such conduct be immediately referred to PA for resolution? What is the DMs role, in your view, in dealing with instances of suspected player misconduct? Do you favor scripted solutions designed to prevent potential misconduct before it happens? or dealing with rule violators on an induvidual basis?

Finally, you have expressed that your platform is based on trust of the DMs and the playerbase. First, how much authority to you believe resides in the DMs to officiate and determine matters that occur IG, whether that involves IC interactions, rules determinations, standards issues etc. How would you deal with any DM that proved untrustworthy?

Sorry for all the questions, but you did ask. =)

[boombrakh]

Hey Boom,

Why hello there, oldgrayrogue,

Do you think the current risk/reward system for static and DMd content in ALFA needs changing? Is reward for risk too high? too low? just right? Should the rewards for "adventuring" style RP, where the PCs life is placed at risk in a permadeath world, yield higher reward than "tavern style" RP that benefits from the RPXP script.

This is a really good question. I think It all depends on what you mean by "tavern style" RP. If you are referring to the everyday run of the mill roleplaying that we all engage in, then absolutely. But if you are referring to actual roleplaying where a DM is present and the world actually responds around you and there is a risk involved, then it becomes another matter entirely. I'll elaborate on that a bit further down though.

As for the current risk/reward system for static and DM'd content then I don't think it is an issue that needs addressing at this point. I trust the HDM's of the respective server to make that call according to the current ALFA standards.

Do you think the current availability of magic items is adequate for the Forgotten Realms setting we play in? Should more items be available for purchase IG without a DMs involvement? Less?

I know ALFA was a low-magic world that has turned into a low/mid-magic world the past few years. I'd have no problem in introducing more magic into the world as it stands. I don't think we need to make each and every overpowered item available for sale in your local "ye olde magic shoppe" but the occasional nifty magical trinket, to give the impression that the world is a magical place, that I do not oppose.

What are your views on our wealth standards? If most PCs are below average wealth, do you think anything needs to be done by DMA to address that? By the DMs? How would you expect DMs working under you as DMA to address over wealth standard PCs?

I've been giving the ECL races some thought and how they are treated in relation to how it works in PnP. Now, of course we can't go award them a ton of extra gold at start, but they should in fact be treated as a higher level/xp and be rewarded as such. As it stands today, they are treated as level 1 at level 1 which is incredibly crippling for them, even though they should be treated as level 2, or 3 (or 4).

There are a few ways a DM can handle character wealth, regardless of if it's below or above the average limit. The only acceptable way though, in my opinion, is keeping it IC. Never flat out "rob" a PC though. Play with the character, learn what motivates it and use the characters biography to both give that player some well earned attention and a way for them to gain/lose gold. It's almost impossible to count each and every way a DM can give/take character wealth, but the best solution would be if it is by the players own choice, which makes everything much easier.

If most players in the community were below average wealth based on their current xp then it's a luxery problem. Just be a bit more generous and keep tabs on the PCs. The other way around though, takes a bit more planning and finesse and perhaps some collaboration between DM's.

Do you think the PW as currently constituted favors melee and caster builds over skill based builds such as rogues? If so, what if any changes would you implement as DMA to make skill based PCs more useful and relevent? Along these lines, what if anything would you do as DMA to encourage more class diversity among the player base?

I absolutely think that it does, which is why I want to put a lot more focus on intrigue/plot roleplaying and "permaconsequences" surrounding those kind of plots. I myself, play a skill based PC and I notice how other, more combat oriented PC's always "get the job done" much easier. I think that putting someone in charge of intrigues and plots that don't focus on combat would be a good first step. It's like the quote from the movie "Field of Dreams", "If you build it they will come".

I think that if we just show people that there is a reward in solving things without pointing the pointy end of the sword in the fleshy part of the enemy, they will start building characters who will be able to solve things in other ways. There is a reason why combat oriented PC's are dominating the PC base, and that is because of a vicious circle where you feel you need combat to solve the problem. The DM notices you are playing a combat PC, he presents a combat oriented quest.

What are your views on adding additional PrCs?

I am all for it. I a strong supporter of diversity. The more options you have, the more you can make.

What is your position on past proposals to permit 1 surface PC and 1 underdark PC?

Against it. At this point, I have yet to hear a convincing enough argument to overturn the core rule of 1 PC.

What do you believe is the proper role of Standards in ALFA?

To streamline things, make things as close to PnP as we can while at the same time keeping a semblance of balance in the game.

Do you believe that player abuses like farming, metagaming or cheating should be addressed by DMs in the first instance, or should such conduct be immediately referred to PA for resolution? What is the DMs role, in your view, in dealing with instances of suspected player misconduct? Do you favor scripted solutions designed to prevent potential misconduct before it happens? or dealing with rule violators on an induvidual basis?

Should a player abuse the world we play in, then he should be adressed by a local DM first, in hopes that it can be resolved quickly and easily. In any case, the PA should be informed for logging purposes as to decrease the chance of the player getting away by moving to another server and repeating his/her behaivior. I would rather let someone go with a warning than to slap a strike on them though.

Finally, you have expressed that your platform is based on trust of the DMs and the playerbase. First, how much authority to you believe resides in the DMs to officiate and determine matters that occur IG, whether that involves IC interactions, rules determinations, standards issues etc. How would you deal with any DM that proved untrustworthy?

First I would urge the HDM to take care of the situation and after having a talk with the DM and HDM together, I'd give the DM another chance in hopes that the DM would try to change their attitude and work on rebuilding their trust with the playerbase and collected DM's. Everyone deserves a second chance.

As to what level of authority resides with the DM's, then I'd say all the authority they need. Either I trust them to do a good job, or I don't. If a HDM feels that one of their DM's is trustworthy enough to represent that server in the interaction with a player, then I am sure I could too

Sorry for all the questions, but you did ask. =)

I did, and I appreciate them. Thank you OGR.

[Curmudgeon]

During DMA_Ayergo's tenure, he pushed the Baldur's Gate server that he had been building through the vetting process to Live status, thus approving his own server. He resigned not long after for RL reasons, and left ALFA and the remaining Admin with a server that proved to be somewhat out of compliance with ALFA Standards, and needing hours of work to bring up to specification. He also left it with an HDM who was somewhat over his head technically, though a wonderful story DM.

If you are elected, how do you propose to handle the potential inclusion of your "World Map" server?

[boombrakh]

If you are elected, how do you propose to handle the potential inclusion of your "World Map" server?

First of all, it's not "my" server, it's supposed to be ALFA's server. I have no interest in acting as a HDM for it. It's basically a tool for the other "real" servers and their DM's to use. I'd leave it in the posession of the DMA whoever that may be in the future and hopefully, it'll stay that way when the next DMA comes along and the one after that.

Second, I'd see what the HDM's want from the server and what should/could be included in it. After that, i'd invite those who want to make that happen to actually do that. I know people are busy with their "own" servers, so it'll be a voluntary effort and if it takes time, it takes time. The important thing is not to rush anything but to make a great addition to our community and to keep it in line with what the idea of ALFA was all about - to cover Faerûn.

Oh, and i'd totally approve it.

During DMA_Ayergo's tenure, he pushed the Baldur's Gate server that he had been building through the vetting process to Live status, thus approving his own server. He resigned not long after for RL reasons, and left ALFA and the remaining Admin with a server that proved to be somewhat out of compliance with ALFA Standards, and needing hours of work to bring up to specification. He also left it with an HDM who was somewhat over his head technically, though a wonderful story DM.

I vaguely remember Ayergo (by name only), and I can't really comment on his motives and his actions. I realize you're trying to make a parallell here, comparing me with Ayergo but I'm not interested in pushing things through unfinished as it would only serve to harm the overall quality of this community.