Exodus Integration : A Poll

[zicada]

... it would be good to know how many active players Exodus has to offer.

A fair question, zicada.

According to what Rotku told me, ALFA has about 30-40 currently active players. Exodus has about 15 currently active players, about half of whom are also active at ALFA.

(As an aside: Yeah, we each have hundreds of people registered to our forums. Exodus had a list of over 600 before we lost our former web site and player database. But, arguably, what really matters is the active player population; and how much overlap there is.)

If the numbers above are anywhere near accurate, roughly 20% of ALFA and 50% of Exodus currently active players are already playing on each other's servers.

Hope this helps.

Cheers.

If we define active players as having logged in and played in the last 7 days, we can find out exactly by running this query on the nwnx live database:

Code: Select all

SELECT COUNT(*) AS Total FROM `players` WHERE DATE_SUB(CURDATE(),INTERVAL 7 DAY) <= LastLogin;

The ALFA database currently returns 53. That's between july 7 and july 14. Thus, i'd say far more than 30-40.

Just for fun i ran it on the last 60 days too, returning 96. This means we're not doing that bad a job on retention, keeping in mind this is June and July,- rather slow months for gaming.

Would be interesting to see what you get running the same queries, we can then also look at how many of those players are ALFA members as well, and figure out roughly how many new players we're talking about here. If you're right in 15, and half are ALFAns, we're talking 7-8 players basically.

[Brokenbone]

Neat info Zic.

Is it just as easy to pull, say, a list of GSIDs used in ALFA's vault over the last period of 30-60 days and compare it against a similar GSID list that Exodus's vault-savvy person(s) could generate? Maybe there's 15 overlaps, maybe 50 overlaps, no way to tell over just guesses in the forums.

[zicada]

Neat info Zic.

Is it just as easy to pull, say, a list of GSIDs used in ALFA's vault over the last period of 30-60 days and compare it against a similar GSID list that Exodus's vault-savvy person(s) could generate? Maybe there's 15 overlaps, maybe 50 overlaps, no way to tell over just guesses in the forums.

Yup, i could PM java read only access info (the same the bot uses etc) and a SELECT statement that compares them and spits out the ones that are unique for Exodus.

[javajutsu]

... it would be good to know how many active players Exodus has to offer.

The ALFA database currently returns 53. That's between july 7 and july 14. Thus, i'd say far more than 30-40.

Just for fun i ran it on the last 60 days too, returning 96. This means we're not doing that bad a job on retention, keeping in mind this is June and July,- rather slow months for gaming.

Exodus >> 7 days: 18, 60 days: 38. So my "15" was a little low for us, just as "30-40" was a little low for you. And we're doing equally well on retention. Good news for us both, on all counts.

Would be interesting to see what you get running the same queries, we can then also look at how many of those players are ALFA members as well, and figure out roughly how many new players we're talking about here. If you're right in 15, and half are ALFAns, we're talking 7-8 players basically.

I think it's not nearly that cut and dried, zicada. We've already attracted new players who were excited about the merger news, who weren't previously members of either of our communities. I suspect both communities will continue to attract new players as we go along, provided we continue to generate positive publicity and excitement about what we're doing.

The synergy is more important for us both, in the long run, than 3rd grade math to see which community (between the two of us) is bigger. That's a "gimme": ALFA is larger. Can we move on from that?

It also isn't "just about the numbers". As noted previously:

Also in reality, most of the players who currently have 2 PCs (one in Exodus, one in ALFA) have had so for a long time. I.e. they've been active, supporting members of both communities, some of them since "go live" on both sides of the pond.

I-KP, Arvuelos (iclyious), causk, GlassRain, Loulabelle, AcadiusLost, Nuran... These aren't lightweights. As I-KP put it so well, these are the sort of players who make our imaginary worlds breathe and live, and create a populated and vibrant place for new players to come join.

So, to try to get back to the philosophy of the question before us (both communities):

* Does it make sense to combine our efforts to create a space where dedicated RPers can experience Faerun in NWN2? I think so.

* Does it make sense to accommodate the pillars of our communities if we do so? (And by "pillars" I'm not talking about traditions. I'm talking about people.) I think so.

* If we make accommodation for our most valued players, is it fair to not allow the same accommodation to the rest of the players? I don't think so.

Cheers.

[johnlewismcleod]

I suspect Java is correct in believing a merger would attract more players to both, rather than divide our player base. More options and travel presents fresh opportunity for players and make our collective PW(s) more attractive to all, I think.

I do understand the arguments concerning static content quests in that a PG inclined, anti-social player might try to run through the content of each server successively and don't doubt that eventually that might have to be addressed, but I am confident that can fairly easily be avoided.

The BG static content was originally formulated to prevent abuse (and Sand intends to keep it that way) and there hasn't been a problem thus far. I am inclined to think that will continue to be the case since Amn has no static content and will likely follow the BG model going forward if content is added.

[javajutsu]

I suspect Java is correct in believing a merger would attract more players to both, rather than divide our player base. More options and travel presents fresh opportunity for players and make our collective PW(s) more attractive to all, I think.

Sweet.

The BG static content was originally formulated to prevent abuse (and Sand intends to keep it that way) and there hasn't been a problem thus far. I am inclined to think that will continue to be the case since Amn has no static content and will likely follow the BG model going forward if content is added.

Underline added by me.)

This is slightly inaccurate. Amn has no static quests; but does have a few areas of static spawns, intended to give players something to do while waiting for a DM or other players; or for a player (or group of players) to RP going out to kill monsters, if that's really their thing.

However, the static content in Amn is formulated to provide very little in the way of xp or drops. The biggest benefits will be the timed xp (which is the same script used by ALFA) and something to do. If the formulation works as intended, it won't be practical for a player to "grind their way" to levels by hunting statics. And the risk is great (permadeath).

(As an aside: given the risk-benefit ratio, we don't intend to police this. If someone wants to farm the bejesus out of what few statics we have, and don't mind the risk, more power to them. If that's *all* they do, we'll have a chat with them about trying their luck on an Action server, since Roleplay doesn't seem to be their interest - and it is a Roleplay server.)

[Swift]

* If we make accommodation for our most valued players, is it fair to not allow the same accommodation to the rest of the players? I don't think so.

Every player in our community is as valuable as the next, whether you are a 10 year veteran to ALFA or a brand new recruit just logging in for the first time.

Give any player special treatment and trouble will follow close behind.

How will you explain to a new player that players X, Y and Z are allowed two PCs but the new player isnt? They aren't going to care that at one point a community called Exodus existed by itself, they will be joining a single community that has Amn as a server and struggle to understand why they aren't allowed the same treatment.

[Blindhamsterman]

Swift, I believe that was the point Java was making also, that it is an all or nothing choice - Everyone gets two PCs (but cannot travel if they opt to have them) or Everyone gets 1 PC.

Ultimately the merging of the communities can be nothing but good, with the addition of extra players we gain more RP opportunity, it looks like at least one of the additional ALFA servers will remain in BETA, perhaps indefinitely so the player spread will not end up being so thin either which is probably a benefit for our no longer so large communities.

[fluffmonster]

The number of PCs...you are all wasting a great deal of energy on this. If the 'vaults' are never merged, its a non-issue. Everyone agrees that if the vaults are merged, there should only be 1 PC per player...so just make it this way. Keep it simple. If vaults are to be merged, then set the date for the merger and by that time require everyone with a PC in both worlds to pick one. Any other approach only brings on bullshit. The time players get to pick their PC should only be the time until vault merger.

I don't know why this is being made so hard. This isn't a debate about the number of PCs a player gets, its a debate about how to make two worlds into one. Have the debate about number of PCs somewhere else.

[johnlewismcleod]

A very good point, Fluff...thanks

[Veilan]

Only problem remaining then would be people dodging start level 1 via the route of Exodus, hence why we should have shut down new creations already.

On a related not, I haven't seen a page 10 lock in a while...

[javajutsu]

Everyone agrees that if the vaults are merged, there should only be 1 PC per player...so just make it this way.

This is simply untrue. Stating that "everyone agrees" to this doesn't make it so.

The focus of this poll was two-fold:
1) to determine whether to merge the communities at all;
2) if we do merge, to get a feel for what people are willing to live with, in terms of what to do about the fact on the ground that quite a few players have PCs in both communities.

I agree that whatever solution we arrive at, should apply equally to everyone. But that could mean either of the proposed paths: either everyone consolidates (at some point) to 1 PC. Or everyone has the choice to play a 2nd PC if they wish (but if so, one of those PCs can't travel from the server/setting/campaign that's it tied to). Or everyone keeps the status quo (no bridge, no merge).

Ample support for going either way has been expressed by this community, as born out by the numbers in the poll.

[Sandermann]

On the topic of static content running across multiple servers (this was always a problem in NWN1 - running the WD>DF>BG>NC>SD run was a sure way to be level 4 or 5 in a month or so) we always simply used to counter this with DM vigilance. As theres only three servers in this discussion I cant see it being a big problem.

BG statics will be on a stepped basis, with one leading onto another, but there will be an enforced time limit between them, so doing all of the statics in a progression would take a week or so anyway. Discoutning the repeatable trade based statics, but these require significant travel anyway so the need for other limits is fairly null and void.

Worrying about players running statics is not something I think we should be concerned with until we actually see it happening, we already have measures in place to control this behaviour should it come to it.

[javajutsu]

Completely unrelated to this thread, mentioned only because it came up here:

I'm happy to say that Mord and I got to the root of the misunderstanding, and that's all it was. Life is good. In fact, we just spent some nice RP together in Amn.

*Jedi hand-wave* Nothing to be seen here. Carry on.

[Rotku]

On a related not, I haven't seen a page 10 lock in a while...

Well you are not going to see it just yet. As I'm locking the thread now. I feel the same old arguments were discussed 4 pages ago are starting to recycle. This thread has served its use, as far as I'm concerned. If anyone wants to continue the discussion on: Exodus-ALFA merger; Multiple PCs; Starting levels; Static content or what ever other stuff has been discussed along with this thread, feel free to start a new topic.

Thank you everyone who contributed to this thread. It has been useful.