Exodus Integration : A Poll

[jmecha]

I think everyone who wants to see Exodus and ALFA merge, wants one PC per player to be the law of the land once the dust settles after the joining. At this point I think the only debate left is how much time do we want Players active in both communities to have before they decide which of their two PC's they want to keep and which they would like to retire quietly and or seen out in a blaze of glory.

[NickD]

How does:

FFS guys, we are ALFA, we are the end game when it comes to hardcore IC. We are the people other PWs like to sit and laugh at cos we know who brought down the ancient empire of Climshan, We know the unspoken 8th clan of Shanatar, we know that third crow war was not about just good and evil....

preclude:

Talk all you want of multiple PCs, of level 3 starts, I am sure that may be fun. But it is not ALFA!.

?

If we're all hardcore roleplayers full of meta knowledge, why would having multiple PCs starting at level 3 shake the foundation of ALFA?

And of course, there's the old chestnut of what's the point of being a hardcore roleplayer if there's never anyone to roleplay with?

[Veilan]

When I joined up in ages past, I actually made a point of not learning canon, so that I'd not have trouble differentiating between IC and OOC knowledge .

[I-KP]

Sand,

Exactly (mostly). If Amn is to be bridged then, in the interests of fairness, it should come with no more (permanent) dispensation than that afforded to any of the other current and soon-to-be ALFA servers.

Until all concerned parties can decide on a pan-ALFA multi-character ruling (to aid in mitigating the inevitable dilution of a finite player base across what may well turn out to be five game servers) option #4, with regard to getting Amn bridged, seems like the most immediately accommodating, no-hassle solution. Review at a later date if necessary.

I do happen to consider that the issues of getting Amn bridged and the spreading of our combined playership too thinly over multiple servers are distinct matters that should not be allowed to contaminate each other. (Amn is in many ways exempt from the playership spread issue anyway because it somewhat uniquely comes with its own highly dedicated, and understandably protective, team.) To reiterate from a previous post: let’s avoid slipping into treating Exodus as the whipping horse for issues that ALFA would have to face anyway. Exodus isn’t testing ALFAs pillars; ALFA’s second wind of growth is testing its own founding pillars.

A plea from a humble player (with a big gob):-

The poll is currently overwhelmingly in favour of a bridge, and for good reason; let’s try not to forget that. Amn just feels right and it would be mad not to let this happen; it is the very definition of a no-brainer. Please don't allow wrangling over easily compromised details to develop and conspire to spoil the deal. It’s a scary step for some, that’s understandable as change is not an easy bedfellow for everyone, but it is important to remember that nothing that is decided can’t be reviewed or even reversed. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[Mord]

as long as i don't have to deal with java, ever, you can do whatever you like as far as im concerned.

[Brokenbone]

Let me reply to a couple of posts.

First, Brokenbone seems to worry about how PCs from current ALFA servers would ICly fit to Amn, and vice versa. Whether there's any synergy to have a bridge for PCs to cross in the first place.

My take is that the lack of obvious synergy is exactly why Exodus/Amn would contribute all the more to the "ALFA family of servers". Amn strives to be different from a Sword Coast adventure setting, and we manage that with success that varies. Thus we hope to have something more enrichening to offer than a larger territory of the same. The variety should be a richness.

So, why would an Amnian travel across to leave his plush homeland? Well, on quick thought, here's three reasons
1) He runs afoul of the status system. Getting (deservedly or not) a bad rep with all those Shadow Thieves around can make you want to change neighbourhoods.
2) He's born to Amn, but his own personality doesn't fit to the "Amnian mafia way" of connections and coin. Perhaps he's the heroic type that doesn't see his efforts rewarded, or a sorceror who's just had enough of hiding.
3) Most importantly, business. The Merchant class Amnians are crazy about status-proving fads and exotics to one-up each other. Exotic goods from far-away lands can reach ridiculous profit margins. So going out to hunt for them makes sense.

Why would an adventurer come to Amn? I can come up with two off my forehead:
1) Amn has its share of dangers, and able combatants are appreciated with plenty of coin. A mercenary instinct could lead a warrior to strive to make plush profits, and perhaps leave again when having to follow the ways of the locals to a degree eat into him too much.
2) Most importantly, business. Coming in to sell those exotics.

That said, your typical northern adventurer shouldn't be able to take on Amn on his own terms. It's supposed to be a mafia-inspired setting, and not many have made succesful dealings with the mafia on their own terms. But it's not that hard to engage Amn on Amnian terms. It is a challenge regardless, and we strive our utmost to make it a fun one. If you've perused our Player Handbook lore, you're well set for it, I dare claim. And there's an undercity, the Shadow Thieves, the Cowled Wizards, and numerous religious orders, for those who would not climb the social ladder as the merchants know it.

But yeah, glancing by Amn casually for an adventure will probably not net you a wagonload of the fabled coin. It's about involvement, initiative and effort. But you should be able to come in and have fun even as an "adventurer". Even if the Amnians would prefer to call you "mercenary". Though if the setting sthick gets in the way of people having fun, then we need to ease it, and along the way it has been eased and morphed quite a few times.

All that said, most PCs both sides the current ALFA/Exodus split would probably not fit very well on the other. All the more reason to what I'd like to reply to next about "option 2":
<SNIP>

Just to reply to a limited point, my post wasn't meant to frame a "worry", it was just an impression that Exodus's Amn has or had a pretty deep looking vibe, if it plays anything like your players handbook related forums seemed to suggest... and I wondered if blending one "deep" setting with a couple of other servers which each have their bunch of different hotbeds (mostly faction based but not like merchant-house factions) would end up with strange results. At the same time though, my conclusion would be "so what, mix it up, see what happens, break it apart later if enough people were unhappy."

Anyhow, over to the metagaming points, both ALFA and Exodus, or a combined ALFA and Exodus, are SMALL communities. Someone getting wealthy overnight or all of a sudden being an encyclopedia of knowledge only their OTHER PC should be privy to, it gets noticed. Extreme cases, the PA gets involved, lighter cases, people just end up shunned by other players & DMs, the game's no fun if you're playing with a suspected cheat (unless your fun is putting them on scout duty against inescapable odds, locking them into a dungeon or something else like that).

[hollyfant]

While I do have an opinion, I am not going to vote.

In my opinion we have two real options, both equally valid: full integration, or none at all. We can share a player base but keep the game worlds completely apart, thus benefiting from each other's ideas, knowledge and numbers. Or we turn Exodus into an ALFA server (or the ALFA servers in Exodus ones ) and work as one. Anything in between is a kludge, that will come back to haunt us in the long run.

Of course, if we do merge fully there will be a transitional period. But it should have a clear end, after which the "Alfadus" rules apply to all, everywhere. Either that, or let's just not even go there.

[witch]

Talk all you want of multiple PCs, of level 3 starts, I am sure that may be fun. But it is not ALFA!.

Like many othwers,I have put hundreds upon hundreds of hours ito ALFA, in build, script and DM time, and I do this because I ove what we are, we used to proudly stnad for that and now all I see is simpering and limp wristed indescion and meaningless politeness.

FFS guys, we are ALFA, we are the end game when it comes to hardcore IC. We are the people other PWs like to sit and laugh at cos we know who brought down the ancient empire of Climshan, We know the unspoken 8th clan of Shanatar, we know that third crow war was not about just good and evil....

Yes..we may bring more players in by lowering our bar..but seriously we are the Ƥøا bar...

interesting to see that on Exodus, the two pc rule was rarily used by players and never abused..

and that level 3 as starting level didnt cause a problem ever when it was implemented..

perhaps that says something about the maturity of that playerbase ..
to handle freedom and responsibility..


Did alfa ever test it? i havent been on alfa for awhile so it might have been tested and found to be an immense breach of the hardcore rp Alfa stands for?

[Magile]

perhaps that says something about the maturity of that playerbase ..
to handle freedom and responsibility..

Subtle jabs aren't normally helpful when the debate is seemingly on thin ice already.

[witch]

actually wasnt a jab but a question and statement based on facts how the two things Sandd mentioned worked out on exodus.

[Rotku]

I wouldn't say thin ice, but witch, that was definitely a jab. If you're going to have that attitude, this thread is not the place for you.

[Keryn]

I'm actually very optimistic, I have seen a mature and civil debate with people pointing out ideas and showing their views discussing possible issues openly without being jerks, which shows IMO that more then ever this community is ready to embrace situations like this one.

I also dont think we walk on thin Ice here, the prospect of a full integration is awesome, other ideas for discussion should be taken elsewhere so that we remain focus in the objective here. Lets get this done guys.

[oldgrayrogue]

Talk all you want of multiple PCs, of level 3 starts, I am sure that may be fun. But it is not ALFA!.

Did alfa ever test it? i havent been on alfa for awhile so it might have been tested and found to be an immense breach of the hardcore rp Alfa stands for?

To answer your question witch, I joined ALFA and have been an active member since shortly before the first NWN2 server went live. While multiple PCs and level 3 starts have been discussed many times (and advocated by a few members like myself who do not believe such changes would soften the hardcore nature of the RP at all), to my knowledge it has never been tested. In my experience changes to these ALFA pillars will never be accepted by a majority of the current ALFA membership.

As an ALFA AR, I thought you deserved an honest answer to your question.

[Rotku]

I wouldn't say thin ice, but witch, that was definitely a jab. If you're going to have that attitude, this thread is not the place for you.

Just a further note - please do keep this thread civil. I am well aware that witch isn't the only person who has introduced some incivility into this discussion, and apologies for cornering you out alone. Any obnoxious nonsense or meaningless attacks by anyone will come with a slap on the hand. This thread is about getting ideas and gauging the communities feelings on some matters - not about proving who is right and who is wrong.

[danielmn]

I agree wholeheartedly, for as everyone knows, I AM RIGHT, therefore, the question of who is right and who is wrong is a nonissue. *me runs before rotten tomatoes can hit*