Changes you might like to know concerning NWN 2 ALFA!

Mitch · Post by **Mitch** » Tue May 20, 2008 4:01 pm

Having a 14 tumble as a 2 rogue/warlock, with zero bab I might add, pretty much measn you won't get hit most of the time while running away from stuff in melee range that you can't hit back...

And the 24 dex means that by level 3 you've got about the same chance of hitting with you eldrich blast as a third level ranger with an 18 dex using a bow. Not to mention less hit points and zero melee ability.

Personally I don't really care much about warlocks and for rp reasons alone don't really want to play one myself, but honestly, any power build combination with a warlock you can come up with isn't going to compare to a standard cleric in party usefulness, survivability, or its ability to solo.

It seems like the one issue with warlocks, which comes in at higher levels, is the ability to spam flee the scene for perma haste. Change that group haste to a solo expedious retreat, which is pretty much only good for running away, and no one is going to complain about balance issues.

The only other arguement I can see is you can still use it to kite but... anybody with a bow can kite its not unique to any one class.

HATEFACE · Post by **HATEFACE** » Tue May 20, 2008 5:33 pm

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Avaz · Post by **Avaz** » Tue May 20, 2008 6:15 pm

Riotnrrd · Post by **Riotnrrd** » Tue May 20, 2008 7:52 pm

No one shall have fun when JaydeNoob is about.

JaydeMoon · Post by **JaydeMoon** » Tue May 20, 2008 7:58 pm

Riotnrrd is a... a... Riotnrrd!!!

Kest · Post by **Kest** » Tue May 20, 2008 10:36 pm

Magonushi wrote:Ok, for those of you who think social skills are worthless what about 14+ ranks in tumble by level 2 as rogue/lock or having 24 dex as a level 2 hin rogue/lock? Don't forget the charisma based boost to all saves a lock can get either.

The thing is, they are using their only spell slot to gain one of the advantages you have used for examples so far.

Mayhem · Post by **Mayhem** » Wed May 21, 2008 5:14 am

Mitch wrote:Having a 14 tumble as a 2 rogue/warlock, with zero bab I might add, pretty much measn you won't get hit most of the time while running away from stuff in melee range that you can't hit back...

And the 24 dex means that by level 3 you've got about the same chance of hitting with you eldrich blast as a third level ranger with an 18 dex using a bow. Not to mention less hit points and zero melee ability.

Except its a touch attack, ignoring the targets physical armour, and at level 3 its doing 2D6 damage, rather better than the average bow.

Not saying that's banworthy, but it is a little better than you implied.

I played a hin rogue1 warlock extensively in the TSM beta, and it did strike me as being able to take on foes I wouldn't go near with a similarly levelled warrior.

Vendrin · Post by **Vendrin** » Wed May 21, 2008 7:06 am

Except its a touch attack, ignoring the targets physical armour, and at level 3 its doing 2D6 damage, rather better than the average bow.

But it can't get a damage bonus like a composite bow(and at level 3, if we supposedly follow our own wealth standards a level 3 ranger should be able to afford a +1 mighty bow at least), or point blank shot, or sneak attack.

Magonushi · Post by **Magonushi** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:49 pm

Vendrin wrote:if we supposedly follow our own wealth standards

MShady · Post by **MShady** » Thu May 22, 2008 1:01 am

If its better than a pure class cleric, I'd be concerned.

That a low to mid level warlock can take out high CR stuff by hit and run isn't huge. What can a cleric do? I could take a 7th level cleric with ultra vision and darkness and have taken down 4-6 hill giants at a time. In melee. With MW gear.

Or a 20th level cleric can take out a Pit Fiend 6 times after several waves of mid to high level demons AND devils after several waves of Zhents with minor injury (granted out of magic...) and finally has to be defeated by an OOC DM jump away...

When a warlock can do THAT with only moderate risk, then I'd be concerned.

Brutus2_ · Post by **Brutus2_** » Thu May 22, 2008 4:08 am

The debate on Warlocks being overpowered or not has gone on for a long time but I have yet to see one person offer any reason why Favored Soul is considered by ALFA to be overpowered or why it's not allowed.

FS is a cleric who gets less spells, no turning, no domains. I just like the spontanious casting.

MShady · Post by **MShady** » Thu May 22, 2008 5:02 am

It has damage reduction and energy resistence.

Apparently those are game breaking abilities.

Truthfully its silly. If a class is a bit over powered in an RP environment... well you have DMs who can provide a challenge that, not neccesarily against a weakened but not playing to a strong suite either

Mike

Kest · Post by **Kest** » Thu May 22, 2008 5:46 am

Brutus2_ wrote:I just like the spontaneous casting.

Heh... had a PnP DM that allowed my cleric to do this, using rules from Unearthed Arcana.

Spontaneous casting may lack versatility... but it is convenient, requires much less paperwork, and (in my opinion) is more immersive than the traditional magic system. The character knows his abilties - none of that bull about spells taking lodging in his brain and him forgetting them afterwards.

Brutus2_ · Post by **Brutus2_** » Thu May 22, 2008 11:35 am

MShady wrote:It has damage reduction and energy resistence.

Apparently those are game breaking abilities.

Truthfully its silly. If a class is a bit over powered in an RP environment... well you have DMs who can provide a challenge that, not neccesarily against a weakened but not playing to a strong suite either

Mike

The damage reduction comes at level 20. How many PW characters ever see level 20??

How does 10 energy resist make a character overpowering, especially when you're giving up Turn Undead, Domains, and lots of spells to get it?

MShady · Post by **MShady** » Thu May 22, 2008 5:30 pm

Not that this discussion is at all transparent to the rest of the community... not sure why.

I believe the catch is that damage resistenances are being looked at like an item of similar value. If you have a PC without resistences compared to one who does, it means they have an ability with a value of 8000 gp for a 5 pt resistance. So that's considered unbalancing. Not that any other class abilities are really assisgned monetary values like that.

Its an aspect of it at least, I believe... wings may be a hold up too...