bardic lore

[Zelknolf]

Note also that the Competence bonuses apply to the bard him/herself as well in NWN2, whereas they don't in PnP- I actually like the flavor added by the inspiration not being a bonus to oneself (and useless in soloing).

That's not entirely true. The option on the inspirations is self or one ally, usually (I'm guessing that "inspire competence" can't apply to oneself because the only thing one could use that for oneself for would be to inspire oneself to competence ... better?)

Inspire Courage (Su)
A bard with 3 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use song or poetics to inspire courage in his allies (including himself), bolstering them against fear and improving their combat abilities.

Inspire Competence (Su)
A bard of 3rd level or higher with 6 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use his music or poetics to help an ally succeed at a task.

Inspire Greatness (Su)
A bard of 9th level or higher with 12 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use music or poetics to inspire greatness in himself or a single willing ally within 30 feet, granting him or her extra fighting capability.

Inspire Heroics (Su)
A bard of 15th level or higher with 18 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use music or poetics to inspire tremendous heroism in himself or a single willing ally within 30 feet.

Presumably, the countersong and the song of freedom can apply to oneself, being that the subjects of those abilities are effects, and there's little need for fascinate/suggestion/mass suggestion to apply to oneself.

Obviously all quite different from NWN1 and NWN2 implementations of bardic music, and obviously abilities that're highly party-friendly, but certainly not useless while soloing.

[AcadiusLost]

I was referring to this block in Inspire Confidence:

The ally gets a +2 competence bonus on skill checks with a particular skill as long as he or she continues to hear the bard’s music. Certain uses of this ability are infeasible. The effect lasts as long as the bard concentrates, up to a maximum of 2 minutes. A bard can’t inspire competence in himself. Inspire competence is a mind-affecting ability.

(Emphasis added)

As Inspire Competence would apply to key soloing skills like Survival(tracking), Spot, Listen, Move Silently, Hide, Search, Disable Device, etc- I do think the change would help enhance their "better in a group" aspect.

[Mulu]

AL, looking over the bard description in the SRD, I would say very little of the songs/inspirations were made the same between the games, even the ones with the same names. They read like they're from different versions of the rules. I assume bard abilities were changed in NWN2 from SRD3.5 for the obvious reason that NWN2 style play is far more combat oriented than PnP style play. Especially in a PW where group balance is not a given, unlike in campaigning, the ability for bards to affect themselves makes a lot of sense. Singing a song to yourself can be inspiring. And overtly it just seems silly to nerf the weakest class in the game.

Then again, I doubt my PC will ever get high enough level to be affected by nerfing the inspirations. It took me three years to get to level 5 with my NWN1 PC.

[Zelknolf]

I was referring to this block in Inspire Confidence:

<snipped out - y'all can scroll up to see the quote. >

(Emphasis added)

As Inspire Competence would apply to key soloing skills like Survival(tracking), Spot, Listen, Move Silently, Hide, Search, Disable Device, etc- I do think the change would help enhance their "better in a group" aspect.

I did note that PnP inspire competence didn't apply to oneself, and even went so far as to suggest that's because the bard would be too busy inspiring himself to actually benefit from it there, what with the lack of a lingering duration. (The response as I wrote it was based on the original use of "confidence" in your post -- which seemed a broader term meant to cover the various levels of greatness/heroics of the bardic music inspiration abilities to me. I must've misinterpreted?)

Personally, I'd be for letting inspire confidence, specifically, play out in action for a while before deciding whether or not a bard hitting him/herself with it is too uber. +2 on a skill for a class that's likely to be spread out in the skill points/ability scores, like a bard, seems moot; an extra +2 on top of a rogue's maxed search/spot/open lock/disable device... well, that sounds like grounds to make friends with a bard to me (and grounds for the bard to make friends with the rogue).

[JaydeMoon]

I say this!

I say that!

That does not make this untrue!

I did not say that that does make this untrue!

Neither did I say that you said that makes this untrue.

I did not say that you said that I said that that makes this untrue!