Apologies to Cipher and the community

Aelred · Post by **Aelred** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:33 am

Over the last two months I have easily spent 80+ hours on the Southgate exterior for Cipher. I was only 10 hours away from finishing and planned to send it to him this weekend and focus my full attention on Cormanthor. The last time I worked on it was Sunday when it crashed while I was saving it. Ironically I emailed Cipher today telling him it would be ready by Sunday and afterwards I went to open it and the file was gone. The memory crash while saving must have completely wiped it. There isn't even a temp file in there. And the fsked up thing is I had no backup copy anywhere.

I can't express how bad I feel right now - not only did I spend 100 hours of my life on that one area (essentially wasted!), I also totally let down Cipher who was really counting on me. I want to offer my public apologies to Cipher for my screw-up at not saving a second copy anywhere.

I'm truly sorry man!

The Waterdeep project was already in serious peril because of the lack of help from our community which is why I signed on in the first place....and now...how can I find it in me to redo 100 hours of work for a project that has the real possibility of never coming to fruition because of the lack of contributors?

As much as I am ashamed by my stupid-ass mistake of not having a backup, what is much much worse is living with the reality that ALFA NWN2 may never be built. It hangs by an extremely thin string due to the lack of active contributors. The greater majority of Alfans full of good intentions to help but they never actually do.

Verbal support from the sidelines helps a builders motivation but it won't get the actual building done. The million excuses why you can't even contribute an hour of your time each week won't get the building done. The many promises of your willingness to help that are never actually acted on will not get anything built.

Many people said they don't help because they find the toolset too hard. Several were asking that someone take responsibitlity to help the community learn. So against the warnings of the skeptics I tried to have faith in the Alfa community and I created the NWN2: Toolsetting forum, posting basic tutorials there and offering help to anyone who asks. I am shocked at the total lack of response. Yet people have hours upon hours to rant and rave in the friggin off topics forum. WTF!

I want to say thank you from the bottom of my heart to the very few people who DO actually contribute. I commend your perseverance in the face of such overwhelming odds.

Aelred

Misty · Post by **Misty** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:40 am

That sucks, it really does, but I am tired of being implicitly bashed for not helping to build.

I don't have NWN2.

I don't plan to upgrade my computer for one single game.

I put my money where my mouth was, in helping to build quests and convos for a side of ALFA I have no intention of ever actually playing.

There are a lot of ALFAns who don't have NWN2 for one reason or another.

Inwintersshadow · Post by **Inwintersshadow** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:07 am

I don't have the disposable income to afford a new system or the time to spend either. I'm sorry you lost such a lot of hard work but ranting at people in reaction to your loss is not the way to go about it.

Lusipher · Post by **Lusipher** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:09 am

I also agree it sucks what happens, but I also agree with Misty some of our builders need to get off other peoples butts for not building. I have seen Indio get biligerant with me because im not building and Ive seen Cipher get cross with people because they didnt understand the toolset. Some folks just dont have the time or even want to build. Some of us just try and do what we can to support the project in other ways right now.

Im trying to bring in other folks who want to build, script, etc from outside the community. Im trying to get folks interested in ALFA. If its not enough then please tell me and I will let you all go your merry way and Ill go somewhere else.

I agree we need more folks helping, but you cant force people to do something they dont want to do. Hopefully, we can get more interested in that side of the project and as I said im trying to bring them here.

Overfilled Cup · Post by **Overfilled Cup** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:12 am

Try a backup date on your cpu from before the crash. Ive found files like that before. Just a thought.

maxcell · Post by **maxcell** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:26 am

Overfilled Cup wrote:Try a backup date on your cpu from before the crash. Ive found files like that before. Just a thought.

The System Restore option in XP, right, good thinking OC. If you have not set a restore point yourself, the system does so automatically at certain points. You may not be able to recover all the work lost, but you may just get some of it back.

1) Control Panel
2) Performance and Maintenance
3) on the left hand side there should be a System Restore option
(or Open your System Info and there should be a tab for System Restore)

indio · Post by **indio** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:46 am

Let's find a way to find the files and deal with the actual problem.

Were you saving as a module file or in directory mode?

And I keep trying to tell you Aelred....only very few people build in this first phase. This is why I'm worried about you burning out. You're one of 5 people here who do actually build, and you are defining how ALFA will be looking.

However, this brings expectations that all your work will be brilliant, and it also means you feel pressure to constantly produce. Take a break mate. Have some time off. Then focus on Cormanthor....you've been pining for it for so long and if you force yourself to build something you don't want to build, your burn out will come sooner, and last longer.

I think you're very important for ALFAs future Aelred. We're going to wait for you to be ready. You're worth the wait. There will always be people who see the work you do behind the scenes and they will always be supportive, so beware going public. There are people in every community who understand only how to use a forum.

So don't get your expectations up over who's going to help you build. Focus instead on pacing yourself and getting support from those who will actually be able to help. We're a small community now, and where you've experienced great success in the toolset, it's clear a fair few potential builders have experienced the opposite.

I hope we get to keep you amongst us Aelred. Take your time, build what you want, and make more backups!

PensivesWetness · Post by **PensivesWetness** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:01 am

indio wrote:Let's find a way to find the files and deal with the actual problem.

Were you saving as a module file or in directory mode?

And I keep trying to tell you Aelred....only very few people build in this first phase. This is why I'm worried about you burning out. You're one of 5 people here who do actually build, and you are defining how ALFA will be looking.

However, this brings expectations that all your work will be brilliant, and it also means you feel pressure to constantly produce. Take a break mate. Have some time off. Then focus on Cormanthor....you've been pining for it for so long and if you force yourself to build something you don't want to build, your burn out will come sooner, and last longer.

I think you're very important for ALFAs future Aelred. We're going to wait for you to be ready. You're worth the wait. There will always be people who see the work you do behind the scenes and they will always be supportive, so beware going public. There are people in every community who understand only how to use a forum.

So don't get your expectations up over who's going to help you build. Focus instead on pacing yourself and getting support from those who will actually be able to help. We're a small community now, and where you've experienced great success in the toolset, it's clear a fair few potential builders have experienced the opposite.

I hope we get to keep you amongst us Aelred. Take your time, build what you want, and make more backups!

+1-1/2 and 6/10ths...

Aelred · Post by **Aelred** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:20 am

Thanks Indio.

System restore does not take into account any files saved in MY Documents - for that there is a windows backup program which I don't have. Regardless of knowing that and in desperation I still gave it a try and got the message there is nothing to restore.

I don't think the idea of being in a community and working together for a common goal is so unrealistic.

AcadiusLost · Post by **AcadiusLost** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:24 am

I'm with Indio on this one... purest sympathy for the loss of so much hard work. Everyone runs into the "no backup" heartache sooner or later, and Murphy's Law would have to square it on something you'd given a great deal to. I'll understand completely if you want to withdraw for a time and decompress- we'll keep a light on for you. If focusing back on Cormanthor will help heal the wounds- it's hard to go wrong with following your heart and doing what you love. Your tutorials and forum are helping some of our community learn to bridge their perceived barriers with the toolset, and will continue to do so, even if you decided to hang up your mouse entirely.

ALFA will transition to NWN2, or not, by it's collective and conflicted will. I think several of us have been losing sleep, feeling like the future of the community hangs entirely on us, and driving ourselves at times to unhealthy levels, trying to drag things forward, feeling the discontent on all sides as directed at us personally.

Rome wasn't built in a day, nor will NWN2-ALFA be. We'll take it one step at a time and see what can be done. Sometimes those steps will be steps back, and that's to be expected. Hang in there, hope to see you around #alfa-builders now and then.

-Thomas / AcadiusLost

danielmn · Post by **danielmn** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:33 am

Ael, take a deep breath, sit back, take a break bro. I know it seems like you tread water a lot of times, I've felt that way myself at times. Your contributions are invaluable. And you are well respected for all that you do.

Rick7475 · Post by **Rick7475** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:32 am

Build what you can, Alred, don't burn out. I redid DF twice at 1000+ hours.

If people want WD, it will get built. There are people here who can still do it with or without you (and that's not saying we don't need you, but that we have the resources).

Right now I personally would like to see at least one server up. Once we have one with all the tools in place, the second will come easier.

Honestly, I have looked at this project and I think this is the best way to go.

You like MD, stick with it. That is your passion. It will get built.

Those that have a passion for WD will build it.

BUT, now listen folks, we are trying to build concurrently. When you do this, it means two or three teams make the same mistakes and don't learn from each other easily. If we build one protoype first, like Indio's project, then we get a working server, people get excited, people say "Hey, ALFA works, how can I help?" or "I want to build a server, too" That's what happened with NWN1.

I say we push for the SF server to go live and then work on the next server. I did that for DF, no way was I going to spend all that time getting stuck on bugs and burning out without a working example. I stole everything from the NWN1 WD server to make DF work. And you saw the results. (I learned this by designing code for the US Air Force and US Army

)

So, Alred, keep up the good work. Shit happens, we understand.

Sorry, Cipher, but WD is pushing the envelope right now. I say we get SF up first, and steal all their interiors, working inn systems, temple stuff, scripts, and everything else and by that time there may be more haks for some of the things we want to do.

Bottom line, we get a server for the ALFA NWN2 community and people will see our flagship, our way of doing things, and how great our product is, and then we will get people coming on board with more talent.

WD has 2 .5 builders (me being the .5). It is a massive undertaking that basically blows all the boundaries to the toolset. And the toolset is nasty.

But SF is progressing. This is the route I say we take. I mean, we can all do stuff for SF and make it the God of all NWN2 PW servers.

And as for the people who couldn't care less about NWN2, enjoy NWN1 and ignore this thread.

Grand Fromage · Post by **Grand Fromage** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:39 am

Ouch. :| Losing any work sucks, but that much... ergh.

Let this thread be helpful to the rest of you though, and remind everyone--back up your work. Go do it right now. All of it, in multiple places. It's a bit of a hassle but it's clearly worth it.

ç i p h é r · Post by **ç i p h é r** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:57 am

Aelred, there's no need to apologize. You're probably more upset than anyone here at losing your own work. If you haven't tried already, take a look at your recycle bin and if nothing is in there, see if you can use an undelete tool to recover the file. Here's a freebie I googled (anyone have any experience with a specific tool?). No promises, but it's at least worth a try.

http://www.officerecovery.com/freeundelete/

Rick, I agree with you in principle and wouldn't mind helping the SF server come online, if Indio wants the help, but postponing Waterdeep will very likely sabotage our efforts to collaborate with the folks at the Citadel. Something to think about. I'm not sure that's an opportunity we should waste if we can help it.

Joos · Post by **Joos** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:07 am

Shit a brick Al, thats a heavy blow to anyone's motivation. I suggest, after you try what Cipher propose, that you take a few days off and do something else, and then come back and do what you want. Same thing has happened to me on occation and it really hurts, so my sympathies goes out to you.