Seeking others!

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Galadorn
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Seeking others!

Post by Galadorn »

I hope to see people gettin' inta BG (and TSM!) more for RP and journeys here, there and everywhere!
Twin Axes
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Re: Seeking others!

Post by Twin Axes »

I'm afraid I've killed the server by making a bunch of people only play when I'm DMing. You're welcome to join us btw, but I know the time slot is hard for you.

My PC Dori is available to hang out on TSM though.
"[T]he dwarvern people, are machine-like, and it is impossible to reason with a machine." - Susana
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Galadorn
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Re: Seeking others!

Post by Galadorn »

yea... :(

Forbidding players to play solo between sessions is... meh

This kind of stuff is solidifying ALFA more and more into a very huge glorified "DM sessions only" kind of server, not a PW. :(

oh well :(

Well, for the next 6 weeks i'm off work, so I kind of can make your sessions probably! :)
Zelknolf
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Re: Seeking others!

Post by Zelknolf »

Forbidding players from accessing ALFA as a persistent world means that your session drains the resources from the persistent world without providing value to it.
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CloudDancing
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Re: Seeking others!

Post by CloudDancing »

What times are you on?

I still have someone on BG.

I also play on Sigil every other night or so on evenings CST.

I have one of my old character from Alfa there even.
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Mick
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Re: Seeking others!

Post by Mick »

There is a decent chance I will be bringing Xiu back to BG some of the time, so perhaps we will catch up in game.
Talk less. Listen more.

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Twin Axes
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Re: Seeking others!

Post by Twin Axes »

Galadorn wrote:yea... :(

Forbidding players to play solo between sessions is... meh

This kind of stuff is solidifying ALFA more and more into a very huge glorified "DM sessions only" kind of server, not a PW. :(

oh well :(

Well, for the next 6 weeks i'm off work, so I kind of can make your sessions probably! :)
Zelknolf wrote:Forbidding players from accessing ALFA as a persistent world means that your session drains the resources from the persistent world without providing value to it.
I'm not forbidding anyone to play solo between sessions. I give bonus XP to (and will incorporate into the campaign the background stories of), those who don't, so that I don't drain my resources as a DM making plans for PCs who get killed by random spawns. And I happen to believe having a regular campaign does bring value to the persistent world. Perhaps more value than intricately thought out and imaginatively played PCs dying like flies during mail runs and solo exploration.

You _can_, and are welcome to, play in my sessions without committing your PC to only play during my campaign sessions. I just won't give you the bonus XP, that's all.

This would not be an issue if players were allowed to have special "campaign PCs" alongside non-such PCs on the same server, but that is probably anathema to Alfa. Or they could just have PCs on other servers (read: TSM) and play them at other times, in fact that would actually increase activity on all (both?) servers.
"[T]he dwarvern people, are machine-like, and it is impossible to reason with a machine." - Susana
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Re: Seeking others!

Post by Zelknolf »

One should spend a moment in reflection when one has to reframe positions as such. You're putting pressure on people to not play and it's working. Activity has dropped by about a third since the 9th.

From the perspective of someone not in your game, (even with our population down to 25 as it is, "people not in your game" is still "most people in ALFA") this is a reduction in the value ALFA provides as a game.
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Re: Seeking others!

Post by Twin Axes »

If the activity that's been reduced is single players spending endless hours walking up and down the same roads, alone, without interacting with anything other than the NPCs that hand out mail statics, or, if when they dare to step off the roads to do something more in the style of D&D adventuring they are quickly and inevitably killed, I'm not sure the value lost is so very great.

Anyway, as I said there's another active server available if the execution of mail runs is so crucial to the life of this community.
"[T]he dwarvern people, are machine-like, and it is impossible to reason with a machine." - Susana
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Re: Seeking others!

Post by Zelknolf »

The logic of "if it's riskless, it's garbage; if it's risky, they might die" sounds like tautology to the action-oriented player. Presumably they found value in it, because it's completely voluntary and done in their leisure time. The inability to see what they saw seems to not be a great justification for saying that there's nothing of value. It'd be about 150 mail runs/week if it was mail runs, though; presumably people were off doing things that make more noise that looks like activity on the logs. Would also explain how people die doing it.

Though if we go back to the core model of persistent worlds, the hope is that plots are entertaining and engaging enough that players get attached to the setting and characters, and want to play in the 'off time,' which is also why the suggestion of making a 'mail alt' is patently absurd; it's not about the mail, it's about the character-- and if we all buy into the basic assumptions of a persistent world (that is, the game is always up and characters are capable of moving between arcs/plots/campaigns) it should work. And this is how the 'ripples' of a good campaign help a server; campaign PCs in the off time logging in to play and people who have other overlaps in play times benefit from those interactions.

Yes, that means that any given character might have things happen to them (up to and including death) as part of events that any given DM wasn't part of, but "not controlling the entire world" is the minimum buyin to being a DM in a persistent world. If you want a cloistered campaign server, host one. Everything in ALFA is open source; I'm sure your players will play; the only thing stopping you is your willingness to put in the effort that you're currently asking others to put in for you.
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Re: Seeking others!

Post by Twin Axes »

HEEGZ wrote:Unfortunately, most of my groupss have ended due to people dyi.g whjle solo between sessions. As a player and as a dm.
This; I do not want this.

I was told by a player that the reason he did solo mail runs etc was to level up to be able to participate in campaign play. I suspect there is also something of the pressure of keeping up with the other Joneses who do engage in a lot of static runs and as a result start leveling up exponentially faster than those who don't, leaving these others behind. If this is what causes the death of campaigns, I will do my best to counteract that. But if repeating statics over and over again rather is central to someone's character concept, I am, for the nth time, not preventing anyone in any way from doing just that. Adults have the power to decide what is most rewarding for them and I'm giving them this choice.

You say I'm asking people to put in effort for me, as though I'm not giving something in return. As it happens, I am putting in a lot of effort, and making some RL sacrifices, to be able to run a consistent campaign as a DM. I would imagine someone trying to put the rich material that has been contributed here over the years to good use is a greater tribute to their work than letting it all slowly die. I love Alfa's persistent world, and to say I want to 'control the entire world' and have a 'cloistered campaign' is perverse. The reason I introduced by campaign bonuses was because I lost three of my player's PCs over a couple of weeks to soloing, and I cannot run a campaign that way. With the low numbers of players these days people have to play alone much of the time, and as a result of the way Alfa is set up, there is an over deadliness.

However, I don't want all server activity to end just because of my campaign. If three players committing to my campaign means the end of Alfa, the situation is dire indeed. Since I'm interested in the overall life of the servers too, I'm going to make a compromise. I will let them keep their benefits if they play as a group outside the sessions. I hope that means we all get to eat our cake and have it.
"[T]he dwarvern people, are machine-like, and it is impossible to reason with a machine." - Susana
Zelknolf
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Re: Seeking others!

Post by Zelknolf »

There's a ripple effect from taking players out of play, same as there's a ripple effect to putting players in play. Yanking out three seems to have actually discouraged more. (not that circumstances aren't dire; they absolutely are. We need to double in population and collapse into one server to hit critical mass for persistent play at arbitrary times)

The compromise resolves my grumps, in any case. Thank you.
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Re: Seeking others!

Post by Twin Axes »

You're welcome. Hopefully this is better for all parties and helps to keep this ship afloat a while longer.
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Re: Seeking others!

Post by oldgrayrogue »

So I feel the need to post here. It was me who had the discussion with TA where he was lamenting losing another player in his campaign and asking me why I thought players solo and do statics on off campaign days. I said I thought folks do that (instead of just tavern RP) to earn the GP necessary to buy the gear and consumables necessary to survive in a campaign. In my experience one campaign session can easily drain a PC of all consumables and the rewards at times are not sufficient to prevent a net loss. I suggested that TA simply increase his rewards (I used to try to give mostly gold/ consumables or useful items to players when I DMd) so that there would be less of a draw to play statics on off campaign days. I did not realize he would install a quid pro quo for that and I think it is having unintended consequences, especially with the low player population.

I logged on the other day TA and sent a tell to one of your players to meet up, RP, maybe do some statics together with my new PC. The player wanted to do so but politely said no due to the agreement with you that only the campaign group could adventure together. I know this is not what you intended and that your intentions are good. I also know what it is like as a DM to put in tons of effort to a story only to have a PC die to a boar on an off night and ruin the plans. However, the beauty of having a campaign going on a server is that hopefully it becomes part of the ongoing server lore that campaign players are RPing with others about and using to bring the place to life. I remember with Heegz gnoll invasion my PC spreading the word of that and getting others involved in his scouts for the gnoll base etc. Or in my orc war on TSM lots and lots of players not really in on the campaign hunting orcs in the hills.

Anyway, give it a bit more thought. Frankly, at our current low population levels I am not sure what use the wealth and XP standards serve any longer. I don't think you should need agreements with your players or a quid pro quo to increase the rewards. There are only a few of us actively playing and CvC is virtually non-existent. The balance goal of standards frankly no longer exists. A few hundred GP or XP more is not going to break the current ALFA. I offer these comments constructively and really hope you take them that way.

This brings up another point, that could maybe be a compromise on the whole campaign only PCs vs PW PCs. Many other PWs out there offer 1/2 of existing XP and GP return on a reroll. Maybe we should consider allowing a DM who has PCs in an active campaign award 1/2 of a dead campaign PCs XP and GP on reroll -- if the new PC is created with a background that is submitted to said DM and based upon the campaign story so far that is OOC known to the player. Now before folks scream meta etc, I think it would be a nice way to let folks who get killed out of a campaign jump back in close to where they were and the DM is there to moderate it to make sure it is fairly done. Anyway just a thought. IMO better than having players choose between playing in the campaign with bonuses or playing with others.
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Re: Seeking others!

Post by Twin Axes »

Ok, I'm changing it again: they can keep their bonuses as long as they don't solo.
"[T]he dwarvern people, are machine-like, and it is impossible to reason with a machine." - Susana
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