Invisibility Restrictions

[Sandermann]

Updating to take into account current policy:

- No restriction when using with a DM present (though notify a DM if the situation warrants)

- Use is allowed in non-aggressive circumstances when scouting and/or escaping enemies, but any abusive use to take advantage of OOC game mechanics is strictly forbidden

- Use for tracking/observing PCs is strictly forbidden unless both parties agree to periodic opposed listen/move silently rolls

[Curmudgeon]

Confirmed by DMA.

Thanks to Sandermann for uncovering this bug.

[Mord]

what if for instance my character swallowed a potion of invisibility to get out of a lethal situation, would that be considered cheating?

[Keryn]

Yes because the enemy you are escaping from should have the opportunity to roll listen and still detect you, and currently this doesn't happen. So you'd get a free ticket out while the critter/PC would have no way to counter it as it should.

[Regas]

Does invis even let you break away from a hostile in nwn2? The spell never worked for my pc's in this situation, rather gave the pc a concealment bonus as per book.

[Sandermann]

OE have changed the spells function to one that is utterly broken in comparison to PnP with the 1.23 update Regas. An NPC will complete its action for the round (which may be to attack the PC as rounds in NWN2 run individually for each character) after which it will completely forget the PC was there and resume its normal routine.

[Sandermann]

what if for instance my character swallowed a potion of invisibility to get out of a lethal situation, would that be considered cheating?

Ideally no, but your PC shouldnt be robbed of this opportunity to escape. We are still playing this by ear for the moment.

For now id continue to use this action (though I can only speak for BG), make the DMs aware of it and if we think its necessary the situation can be re-played.

[Curmudgeon]

what if for instance my character swallowed a potion of invisibility to get out of a lethal situation, would that be considered cheating?

Probably not. But if your PC used invisibilty in a CvC situation, it would.

[oldgrayrogue]

Regarding the use of invisibility potions to escape a lethal encounter (not CvC), doesn't the game still automatically roll a listen etc check for an invisible character just like it does with stealth or HiPS? I always thought that invisibility was handled by the game engine as a very, very high "hide" skill. Yes a combatant might still be able to roll listen and "hear" you running away (or if an animal sniff you out) and give chase, but unless you are in a very confined space or in a locked room, I'd think you have a really good shot of getting away. In a CvC situation i would hope that the players involved would be mature enough to communicate like they would if a DM was around to play out the use of invisibility, or if they are unable to agree, then agree to pause the action and resume when a DM is present to officiate.

[Sandermann]

The problem is the game engine no longer handles invis that way since the 1.23 update ogr. Its now impossible for an invis PC to be detected unless the spell effect ends for whatever reason, or the observer has a see invisibility effect for whatever reason. Potions use the same effect as cast spells or special abilities, including the abilities of items.

[oldgrayrogue]

Ah ... I now see the problem. Thanks Sands.

[hollyfant]

Does this ban still stand, or can it be lifted for the spell? It's still bugged, but a solution appears far off and while the Walk Unseen invocation has a 24h duration, the spell versions of invisibility at least have a limited duration.

[Regas]

I completely agree with Holly... the hazard for abuse lies in the 24 hour spam of the ability. The use of potions, spells and scrolls isn't unbalancing due to invisibility's short duration and limited use. I suggest we allow the use of invisibility except for the invocation but offer warlocks a temporary re-build until the matter is addressed by our overworked tech team.

Please keep in mind that using inviability once a pc or npc is hostile only grants 50% concealment in NWN2 (as it should); additionaly, pcs can not use stealth to hide once invisibility has worn off. Both of these are substantial changes over NWN1 and closer to 3.5 rules. It makes the spell much less effective in combat with hostiles (compared with NWN1), as it should-- the point being while invisibility isn't perfect (in the context of 3.5) it never was, and in many ways it's closer now then before.

How's the saying go? Let not perfect be the enemy of fun?

--Regas