010 Spawns Feedback Request

[Riotnrrd]

Hi folks;

As you (hopefully) know, I am the newest DM for the BG team. One of my interests is spawns.

I'm trying to gather some feedback, not only from the existing DM team but also from you, the players, whom have probably walked around on the server enough to know how things currently are.

In looking at some subset of the spawns on the system, they appear relatively unfinished and somewhat predictable. I could go into a long philosophical speech here, but I think that predictability encourages farming and a suspension of the illusion of a persistent and dangerous world, and its just plain not fun to me to know that goblins will always appear on the hill, or that lizardmen will always be in the old ruins, in the same composition, abilities, and numbers.

My goal would be to create encounters that are challenging and realistic for the region, not necessarily deadly or wildly varied ones, but where fun is always a priority. I envision a set of tables that vary from location to location, so that what appears in a forest is different from what appears in a swamp, from what appears in the hills, and so forth. Groups will be mixed, so you might find 1d3 orcs one time, and the next, 1d2 orcs and a shaman leader, or a pack of wolves, or a gnoll patrol, or even a group of elven rangers.

It also doesn't make sense to me when I see, say, two goblins standing next to two zombies. It might make sense for them to work together (goblin necromancer, anyone?), but I find it a lot more likely that the zombies would try to eat the goblins.

I don't want to fix what isn't broken, so that's why I'm coming to you players, in hopes that the ones of you whom have played extensively on BG have some information for me. What have you seen that doesn't make sense? What have you seen that you like? Where are the places that should have more variety, or feel broken or predictable or stale? How do you feel about existing treasure and XP levels?

Please note that I am not going to go changing things willy-nilly, and particularly not without consulting my DM team and you, the players. My goal is to create fun and excitement, not drudgery or poverty or richness or death. I will be certain to post ample warning, both here on the forums and In Character, before implementing any significant changes.

PLEASE let me know what you want, what you like, what you don't like, and especially what needs to be changed.

THANK YOU.

CURRENT LIST OF CANDIDATES FOR TWEAKING
- Road to ulgoths – Relatively predictable
- Caves in cloakwood could use some work
- Road to beregost very predictable
- Cloakwood somewhat predictable
- NW cloakwood with sea caves are different spawns. Also need to check day / night settings
- Seacaves are generally good
- Loot chest spawns in sea caves and in claokwood right before friendly arm inn
- Herbs / corpses / spell components very predictable locations, but add good flavor. Rewards / alignment bumps need to be investigated
- spawnless areas south from beregost to nashkel, and east from beregost to gullykin...

[dirsa]

ok, here's one opinion:

- undercellar, as far as i know, is still with dm only area, so no comment.
- road to ulgoths seems fine, i've seen it empty, i've seen goblins, wolfs or pairs of ogres... and then there's this large spawn of banites in the woods near ulgoths..
- there are no spawns whatsoever south and east of beregost...
- as far as i can tell only one cave in cloakwood have spawns...
- along the road to beregost there are very predictable spawns in same spots. nothing over the top, though i would say they can eat a lvl1-2 lone traveler without any problems.
- rest of cloakwood seems to have sprinkled packs of goblins, gnolls, sometimes couple undead, or random wolfs or spiders. as far as i can tell they are wandering and have no set spots they appear at. they are not too terribly tough, unless they gang up on you, and then it's a world of trouble... and that comes from lvl6 fighter prespective...
- which brings us to north-west corner of cloakwood, damn if i can remember area name, it's the one with sea caves in it... whole spawn system seems entirely different in this one area. ogres are somewhat a common sight, in my experience this is only area that spawns necrotaurs or ogre mages, packs of goblins and gnolls are abundant, though also mixed in with wolfs, spiders and undead. i've seen on mumerous occasions massive gatherings of all aforementioned, best i could tell without dm. to make it even stranger, it seems that ogres and necrotaurs spawn only during the daytime.
- seacaves themselves seem to have a very nicely set spawns system, which spawns appropriate things depending on where in caves you are.

- also, there are loot chest spawns, which seem to spawn only in sea caves and only other populated cave in cloakwood in area right before friendly arm inn.

i think that covers my spawnsighting experience... pm if you have any specific questions.

[johnlewismcleod]

I've been doing quite a bit of farming (oops...I mean horticultural collection ) lately:

What I've noticed is that while the monsters are by no means predictable (as they are in some TSM areas), the variation along the road areas (my bit of fluff NEVER strays far from the roads) is: goblins, wolves, gnolls, spiders, undead.

Amongst these one really never knows what might spawn or when. What I have noticed is that the timing seems a bit off: nighttime used to be the most dangerous, and daytime was the right time for gathering...now it seems somewhat reversed.

While more variation in the monsters would be welcome, the most predictable thing is the herbs/corpses. They seem to spawn in the same locations (although one never knows what will spawn: a mushroom, fern, or corpse.

If these loctaions could be varied a bit more it would make finding them more difficult and interesting. I find that I cannot help but go to the known locations and see if anything has spawned yet, then move to the next, etc...this becomes a bit routine and streamlined (although the monsters prevent boredom, heh).

Having said that...the herb/spell component/corpse static system is a massive improvement over the "kill for loot only" system we have on TSM (PC's on BG that can't or won't fight can actually generate some income and XP in BG). The system could do with some more and varied collection/skill use options, however.

The corpse system could do with some tweaking: right now the only options are:

1) Loot corpse: results in zero chance to find anything, no alignment impact, no XP (although I must admit this isn't an option I have tried more than a few times out of curiosity and it's possible it works but I just don't know it).

2) Bury corpse: results in zero income (makes sense ), no alignment impact, no XP.

3) Perform last rites: results in zero income (makes sense ), +1 good alignment shift, costs a spell, gives XP.

My opinion is the burying should result in an XP bump, and looting (given a successful search check) should potentially yield some chance of loot, and some XP. Also there should be a "Defile corpse" option for naughty PC's that would cost a Bane spell, grant XP, and a -1 alignment shift.

To my embarrassment I "Performed last rites" on many corpses while trying to get those last few points to my next level a week or two back and it made such a substantial impact on my girl's alignment it felt a bit off to me, but I assume we can't do fractional alignment shifts so there's probably no way to remedy that other than make corpses a bit more rare (I now just ignore them unless party RP prompts me to take notice).

[johnlewismcleod]

- which brings us to north-west corner of cloakwood, damn if i can remember area name, it's the one with sea caves in it... whole spawn system seems entirely different in this one area. ogres are somewhat a common sight, in my experience this is only area that spawns necrotaurs or ogre mages,

Necrotaurs and sandmurks also spawn in the area just south of the Haunted cabin area.

[Riotnrrd]

Great information folks, keep it coming.

I hope that no one views this information as possible metagaming info. If anyone feels that the topic or the detail is edging into an uncomfortable territory, please let me know and I will edit as necessary (after copying all relevant information, of course!).

Thanks so much, I really appreciate it.

One last thing, I'm going to keep a list of candidates for changing in my original post. As people add more information, I'll keep it current, and this will give me a great idea of where to get started.

KEEP IT COMING!

[johnlewismcleod]

Oh...one more tweak that would improve corpse static...the various options should require appropriate time to perform them, and only the "loot corpse" option should be possible to do while in stealth mode.

As it is all options are basically done instantaneously and all can be done while in stealth.

[dirsa]

i think you missed spawnless areas south from beregost to nashkel, and east from beregost to gullykin...

[johnlewismcleod]

- which brings us to north-west corner of cloakwood, damn if i can remember area name, it's the one with sea caves in it... whole spawn system seems entirely different in this one area. ogres are somewhat a common sight, in my experience this is only area that spawns necrotaurs or ogre mages,

Necrotaurs and sandmurks also spawn in the area just south of the Haunted cabin area.

Necrotaurs confirmed in Central Cloakwood map also

[dergon darkhelm]

I have only played a bit on BG so my opinion can be mostly disregarded but ....

I would prefer that the corpse static *not* give scripted alignment changes. I don't like scripted alignment changes period

Also, it is my understanding (perhaps incorrectly) that the herb harvesting scripts and some other statics that are available for some skills are based only on the number of ranks of a particular skill as opposed to the absolute skill bonus. This is, if true, not D&D for rules. Skill checks should include ranks and all bonues/detriments and be based on total skill level.

[Vendrin]

Just a note, the road to ulgoth's beard is regularly patrolled, so any spawns might wish to make sense with that fact.

[johnlewismcleod]

I have only played a bit on BG so my opinion can be mostly disregarded but ....

I would prefer that the corpse static *not* give scripted alignment changes. I don't like scripted alignment changes period

Unless they are made more rare, or a means is found to make the shift fractional (maybe 10 Last Rites causes a 1 point shift)...I'm inclined to agree with Dergon on this.

Also, it is my understanding (perhaps incorrectly) that the herb harvesting scripts and some other statics that are available for some skills are based only on the number of ranks of a particular skill as opposed to the absolute skill bonus. This is, if true, not D&D for rules. Skill checks should include ranks and all bonues/detriments and be based on total skill level.

This is true..and a long standing irritant of mine. I think AL may have looked at it once, and found that it would be difficult to correct, however...so we may be stuck with it.

[Riotnrrd]

I will examine the herb / spell component / corpse spawn statics, thanks for the comments.

Please keep it coming with the rest of the spawns!

[Riotnrrd]

Just a note, the road to ulgoth's beard is regularly patrolled, so any spawns might wish to make sense with that fact.

Who patrols it / what organizations?

Trying to come up with some sensible patrols for the trade way, etc

[Teric neDhalir]

Also, it is my understanding (perhaps incorrectly) that the herb harvesting scripts and some other statics that are available for some skills are based only on the number of ranks of a particular skill as opposed to the absolute skill bonus. This is, if true, not D&D for rules. Skill checks should include ranks and all bonues/detriments and be based on total skill level.

*Teric sticks his oar in*
GetSkillRank() and GetIsSkillSuccessful() both use the total skill modifier i.e ranks plus stat modifier plus item bonuses etc etc, so that sounds a bit unlikely to me.
*Removes oar again*

[johnlewismcleod]

Also, it is my understanding (perhaps incorrectly) that the herb harvesting scripts and some other statics that are available for some skills are based only on the number of ranks of a particular skill as opposed to the absolute skill bonus. This is, if true, not D&D for rules. Skill checks should include ranks and all bonues/detriments and be based on total skill level.

*Teric sticks his oar in*
GetSkillRank() and GetIsSkillSuccessful() both use the total skill modifier i.e ranks plus stat modifier plus item bonuses etc etc, so that sounds a bit unlikely to me.
*Removes oar again*

While that might be true, Teric...the BG statics scripts don't count modifiers. This was confirmed IG and verified by Ayergo shortly after BG went live. Ayergo stated this was purposely done, but I do seem to recall mention of it being difficult to "fix" as well (though that is admittedly a vague memory for me [when Ayergo confirmed it was how he wanted it I tried to put it out of my mind]).