CRAFTING AND YOU

[Riotnrrd]

If so, I'll correct them to 3.5.

Post 3 from top, this thread, "Magic crafting per level" shows 1 every 4.

[paazin]

If so, I'll correct them to 3.5.

Post 3 from top, this thread, "Magic crafting per level" shows 1 every 4.

You have the exact rule somewhere? Is it 3/+1 enhance, 4/+1 ability?

[Riotnrrd]

You have the exact rule somewhere? Is it 3/+1 enhance, 4/+1 ability?

I was asking specifically about armors, weapons, and shields. But since you asked...

Case I: Caster Level x 3 for the requirement for armor, weapons, and shields (3.5 DMG pg 285,286). Or if you prefer SRD, link here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/cr ... cItems.htm
Which says the same thing at the bottom for special requirements for crafting armor, weapons, and shields.

Case II: Ability items have fixed prerequisites as defined for each particular item, where they exist. For example see http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wo ... etofHealth

"CL 8th; Craft Wondrous Item, bear’s endurance; Price 4,000 gp (+2), 16,000 gp (+4), 36,000 gp (+6)"

So for this case there is a single requirement ( CL 8 ) which can then create any of the three. But this number varies by magic item (CL 8 or 9 is typical for any ability item), between STR, DEX, CON, INT, etc. See the SRD for specific items. It would seem reasonable to allow lower bonus items at a fixed requirement formula similar to armors, but if its 4 * ability bonus, it would be impossible to create a +6 item below 24th level.

[paazin]

I was asking specifically about armors, weapons, and shields. But since you asked...

Case I: Caster Level x 3 for the requirement for armor, weapons, and shields (3.5 DMG pg 285,286). Or if you prefer SRD, link here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/cr ... cItems.htm
Which says the same thing at the bottom for special requirements for crafting armor, weapons, and shields.

Case II: Ability items have fixed prerequisites as defined for each particular item, where they exist. For example see http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wo ... etofHealth

"CL 8th; Craft Wondrous Item, bear’s endurance; Price 4,000 gp (+2), 16,000 gp (+4), 36,000 gp (+6)"

So for this case there is a single requirement ( CL 8 ) which can then create any of the three. But this number varies by magic item (CL 8 or 9 is typical for any ability item), between STR, DEX, CON, INT, etc. See the SRD for specific items. It would seem reasonable to allow lower bonus items at a fixed requirement formula similar to armors, but if its 4 * ability bonus, it would be impossible to create a +6 item below 24th level.

Thanks Riot. Sounds reasonable to me. +6 items are exceptionally rare and even +5s (crafted by 20s) are damn rare as well.

[danielmn]

the 3/4 level crafting deviated from the ruleset by Admin decision years ago as far as weapons/arms/armour, as BB states. The table stated in post three is not one I made up, but was ripped (copy/paste) from previous decisions.

As far as crafting taking a day, this was installed to prevent those who'd spend 5 minutes rping crafting something, and then spend the rest of their time out bouncing around. Crafting is a time investment, as well as a coin investment and xp investment.

[paazin]

the 3/4 level crafting deviated from the ruleset by Admin decision years ago as far as weapons/arms/armour, as BB states. The table stated in post three is not one I made up, but was ripped (copy/paste) from previous decisions.

As far as crafting taking a day, this was installed to prevent those who'd spend 5 minutes rping crafting something, and then spend the rest of their time out bouncing around. Crafting is a time investment, as well as a coin investment and xp investment.

Ah, there you go. I thought this was a Standards decision way back when.

[danielmn]

Keep in mind...just because you'll have the ability to make such an item...doesn't neccessitate that you or anyone else will ever have the required funds to make such an item...

[Brokenbone]

Yeah, this is not at all a "standards" thing, it was from something like a crafting, trades and caravan (?) committee of several years ago where it all got voted on by Admin, and it was going to be implemented in a test server or something, but I guess never did.

However, it's the one and only time I've even seen Admin "pass" a crafting system.

Ask Squamatus and Bool and whoever else whether the things that are being pointed out above as "errors", were actually errors, or deliberate adjustments maybe to curb the power of "cover every weakness you've got" magic item creation. Or, since that's impractical, see if the current admin will vote in an amendment to those tables, with "good arguments" such as "they're wrong and here's why."

Again, not a Standards thing, an Admin thing, which no one has touched with a ten foot pole for many years, not that it isn't overdue!

[paazin]

Frankly I'd prefer 4/lvl rather than 3/lvl.

Considering how our world practically sits, having level 9s making +3 weapon/armour seems a little much. I'd say more people about then have +2 items and only once they hit 11+ it morphs to +3

[Riotnrrd]

Considering how our world practically sits, having level 9s making +3 weapon/armour seems a little much. I'd say more people about then have +2 items and only once they hit 11+ it morphs to +3

Apologies, but I don't understand these statements... would you please clarify?

[paazin]

Considering how our world practically sits, having level 9s making +3 weapon/armour seems a little much. I'd say more people about then have +2 items and only once they hit 11+ it morphs to +3

Apologies, but I don't understand these statements... would you please clarify?

Clarification: Until there's another admin vote, rules remain as-is

[randomrper]

So... when I say, enchant an item that's already +1 and put a +2 enchantment on it, do I pay the FULL +2 price/xp/etc, or do I just pay the difference?

And does putting ac bonus to a helm (which I think is Deflection like a ring of protection) count as armor or wonderous item?

[paazin]

So... when I say, enchant an item that's already +1 and put a +2 enchantment on it, do I pay the FULL +2 price/xp/etc, or do I just pay the difference?

And does putting ac bonus to a helm (which I think is Deflection like a ring of protection) count as armor or wonderous item?

Just the difference. And helms are wondrous.

[Brokenbone]

Hey all,

Just trying to give various "crafting advice" from the standards-y price sheets perspective, although what the FEATS can do and as tied to caster levels, well, that's a topic of either that "admin related chart" on the first page, and with any gaps in understanding filled in by the relevant DM team.

I realized that there are some very cheap properties available out there from a value perspective, that aren't covered on those charts, or at least not very explicitly.

Example, where would a bag of holding type item (anywhere from 10-100%, or really 1000 to 10,000gp) fit in? Where would bonus spell slot items fit in (think those'd start at 500 for an extra cantrip, to really high for high level spells)?

Anyhow, I guess I would ask the DM team if kind of just grabbing the SRD or whatever sourcebooks were around (Magic Item Compendium, whatever) and finding the spells or caster levels or whatever associated with the relevant item would be the idea? Or would there be some other way to guesstimate "hey this is of a value level very similar to what the guy could make with easily priced out stuff" and call it even?

Example: where would a Pearl of Power (noslot item with a level 1 spell slot) fit in for crafters? It's cheap (2000gp, based on 1000gp price x 2 for don't need to equip in a slot), does this mean low levels could do one?

In the SRD, the end of the entry is like, "Strong transmutation; CL 17th; Craft Wondrous Item, creator must be able to cast spells of the spell level to be recalled"

Hard to picture 17th level casters don't have anything better to do that whip out crummy junior adventurer gear... but that seems the rule.

Example 2: Bag of Holding, those don't seem to have a spot on the chart... but checking out the trailing end of the SRD posting, "Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Wondrous Item, secret chest. " Not as if we have the "secret chest" spell in game, unless as a level 5 RP spell, maybe this just means we consider even the wussiest 10% bags of holding (the NWN1&2 interpretation of weight reduction ones that is) as needing a CL 9 guy with access to the spell, or even the best 100% bags, also just needing a CL 9 guy with access to the spell.

Anyhow, while I know how to price all this kind of stuff, "how it gets crafted by long dead NPCs before it gets found in a treasure chest" or "how it ends up on a store shelf" or "how kick-butt living NPCs who like gold and live around the server" stuff, all the DM end of things, behind the curtain, and I like it just fine! But players of crafty PCs may need to know if there's a rule of thumb for call it "documentation gap" situations. "Ask a DM" is always the first part of the answer, just wondering if the second part is "and show me if there's any PnP item that has similar effects and what it's requirements are"?

[danielmn]

When I installed the crafting stuff as HDM...

In the SRD, the end of the entry is like, "Strong transmutation; CL 17th; Craft Wondrous Item, creator must be able to cast spells of the spell level to be recalled"

Hard to picture 17th level casters don't have anything better to do that whip out crummy junior adventurer gear... but that seems the rule.

Example 2: Bag of Holding, "Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Wondrous Item, secret chest. " Not as if we have the "secret chest" spell in game, unless as a level 5 RP spell, maybe this just means we consider even the wussiest 10% bags of holding (the NWN1&2 interpretation of weight reduction ones that is) as needing a CL 9 guy with access to the spell, or even the best 100% bags, also just needing a CL 9 guy with access to the spell.

There you have it, an answer to your own questions. I simply used what canon suggested in the Caster Level, the spell, the feat needed, and anything else required. CL 17? Guess the level 12 cleric can't make one, sorry. I would have been willing to cut slack if an item required a spell we don't currently have, not anyone's fault in that reguard. That being said...I'm no longer HDM so that's Paazin's call. If someone wants to go through and take the trouble to document every single item that isn't already in the price guide that we have, as well as what feat, what CL, what spell ect ect ect is needed, go for it! I handled it on a need to know basis on my end...player wanted to craft something, look up the requirements and make sure they meet them. Seems a much simpler way of doing things. Weather the requirements should be changed from canon to some house rules is up for debate though.

Of coarse