Small Weapons

[NESchampion]

So, a persistent problem for my little wizard is that he can't use a staff. What respectable wizard doesn't use a staff? This I would like to remedy. I experimented with modifying the baseitems.2da file in a non-ALFA mod, and duplicated the quarterstaff entry, renaming it and changing the damage according to d20 standards, and it works great!



Look how happy he is to have a staff!

Trouble is, it doesn't work when I utilize the ALFA Haks. Apparently they override the client side override folder. If someone would be willing to walk me through making the changes through the ALFA Haks, I'd be willing to go through and do small versions of other baseitem melee weapons too, from quarterstaffs and greatswords to spears and warhammers. If there's interest I can even tool up the most common versions: masterwork, enchanted (+1), etc.

The models all scale down automatically for larger weapons if the small quarterstaff above is any indicator, so it'd just be a matter of someone showing me what specific areas in the assorted haks I need to change to be compliant for all our ALFA servers and then a lot of me changing damage values and making blueprints.

Thoughts?

e: I should note I didn't see anything fitting this on the NWN2Vault, but if someone knows of a set already premade and ready to go into out servers that'd be great too.

[Marius_Damocles]

I don't know how to do it but I'll +1 the thread, I plan on using a little guy eventually and don't want to be stuck with nothing but daggars and light hammers...

[Blindhamsterman]

if the only file you changed was baseitems.2da

then yeah you could take the copy of that from our alfa2da.hak and mod it, then send it to techy folk to add back in.

One issue I see, they wouldn't play ball with weapon focus or specialization feats afaik

[NESchampion]

One issue I see, they wouldn't play ball with weapon focus or specialization feats afaik

Even if you choose the same number as the regular size item in the feats sections? For instance, Quarterstaff has values for each of the feats; if I leave those when making the Small Quarterstaff, won't the feats work for both types of items?

[Blindhamsterman]

off hand i dont think so... but if it did... I'd totally advocate elven thinblades too

[NESchampion]

Did a test: if you keep the same number as the normal size weapon in the feat columns, it does get the feat benefit, at least from Weapon Focus: Battleaxe...

Normal Battleaxe (+3 tohit):


Small Quarterstaff (only +2 tohit):


Small Battleaxe (+3 tohit):


EDIT: One thing worth considering is the following D20 passage.

Inappropriately Sized Weapons

A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative -2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder.

----

Is there a way to implement this reliably? Otherwise you might see a lot of fighters using small Greataxes with shields for the bonus damage compared to a normal sized Battleaxe with no penalty.

[Zelknolf]

BHM speaks lies and half-truths!

LIES I SAY!

*coughem* Seriously, though, he's mostly right--
You can accomplish the mechanical changes through baseitems.2da. The three things that need to change are damage, size, and talk table reference.

Damage would follow the patterns from the SRD, which it sounds like you already found.

Size is size; I see a gnome with a staff, so you've figured that out.

Talk table is another thing. The descriptions of the items won't update unless you write new ones, which requires a little bit more specialized tools (but it's plain text once you have them). You'll have to coordinate with me to get those talk table entries put together in time for the next rollout, as your changes for weapons and my changes to add cantrips and dimension door will have to play nicely with each other. We're talking about a very very immediate time table if you want to make the next release now, so I'll be looking for you on chat.

If there's any demand for small-sized bastard swords (is there?) we'll need to work on updating our scripted handling of the mechanic. That will be a greater testing burden, and I might suggest putting that off for 1.83, unless there's a gnometank who very much desires a small bastard sword right now somewhere.

-- Edit: Replying to NES's edit --
Yes, but I haven't put any effort into updating some NWN1 systems to NWN2. There is something out there that would be able to handle that, as well as handling some bugs with stacking of gear bonuses. A lot of it would need to be taken apart and retested, though, as its initial design was primarily to handle stacking problems that don't exist in NWN2 and adapt movement rates to pen and paper standards (two things that we're not fussing with here).

[Lucifer]

If the two of you can get behind this and do it I think it is totally awesome..even if it needed to wait for next Hak roll out!! things like this that add to options with out wrecking the balance are what ALFA needs IMHO

[Swift]

Should they go in I will personally see them added to stores on TSM. Perhaps even a new store that specializes in gear for the shorter, more refined gentlemen of the realms

[Rotku]

Perhaps even a new store that specializes in gear for the shorter, more refined gentlemen of the realms

That sounds like a call to roll up a gnome bard, with a top hat.

[Zelknolf]

NES and I got to discussing the horrible implications of adding small weapons (there are a few problematic ones, if we don't include the "You must use weapons made for your character's size" clause). I would expect to see staves and shortspears in the near future, with others to follow.

[NESchampion]

Should they go in I will personally see them added to stores on TSM. Perhaps even a new store that specializes in gear for the shorter, more refined gentlemen of the realms

Awesomeness; now we just need to iron out the issues.

[hollyfant]

Can a "small quarterstaff" still be flurried by a monk?

[NESchampion]

Can a "small quarterstaff" still be flurried by a monk?

Doesn't seem to work, sadly.

[Swift]

Inappropriately Sized Weapons

A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative -2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder.

While it would be a somewhat OOC restriction, we could simply require all small weapons be restricted by race so that only small races can use them. There is no shortage of stores selling weapons on our servers, if anyone kicked up stink that they cant use a small longsword like a dagger, ill happily port them to another store to just buy a freaking dagger.

TSM has a whole heap of cosmetic clothing restricted in the same way for entirely flavor reasons.