Hello to the Active DMs of TSM (not even sure who you are, beyond Viigas)
I'd like to request perhaps a small event for players in the not so low level range sometime soon (that's doable for whoever can manage it)
While I know some players likely have no issues getting DM time, there are plenty of others that see next to none, so something general that was maybe centered around SM, would be really nice..
And hugely appreciated!
Thanks in advance
Minor Request
Moderators: Wynna, NWN2 - 03 DM
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Blindhamsterman
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Re: Minor Request
Just food for thought for any interested DMs:
Not every adventure needs to be tied to an epic tapestry of a story you are telling, not every adventure even needs you along for the ride. The DM client provides you with the ability to shake things up in a pseudo-static way on the server.
Many players, through one character or many, have seen most of the static content on TSM, the same caves full of kobolds, the same spawns in the same passes.
In very little time a DM could take one of these areas or somewhere out of the way, wipe the contents, add in a bunch of named brigands, or just various interesting spawns, add traps, lock doors, throw a chest or two with an item here and there based on the estimated encounter difficulty.
One could then post a rumour on the forums, or even drop a rumour in a few minutes possessing an NPC in game. A DM could accomplish much good, add much interest to the server, make adventuring more enticing vs. sitting about in a tavern all day, and all with minimal or no supervision.
rumours could be vague, danger would be of unknown difficulty, forcing people to group up and be prepared, stories could be woven visually with placed effects of blood and upturned carts or boiling stewpots full of elf ears or whatnot.
I guess what I'm saying is that taking a cave/dungeon/area and adding an interesting encounter to it with a small static reward would add a lot of life for very little investment of time. Adventurers could adventure, they could track clues in game or in the forum to find these new encounters, heck rival groups may even end up racing to find something if the clues are vague enough.
As with anything, there may be the potential for abuse, but goodness, it has to be worth the attempt to try and make the server feel a little more alive even when people have relatively little time to DM.
Think on it, come up with your own spins on it, I bet some great adventures, pc interactions and FUN of all things, could result
Not every adventure needs to be tied to an epic tapestry of a story you are telling, not every adventure even needs you along for the ride. The DM client provides you with the ability to shake things up in a pseudo-static way on the server.
Many players, through one character or many, have seen most of the static content on TSM, the same caves full of kobolds, the same spawns in the same passes.
In very little time a DM could take one of these areas or somewhere out of the way, wipe the contents, add in a bunch of named brigands, or just various interesting spawns, add traps, lock doors, throw a chest or two with an item here and there based on the estimated encounter difficulty.
One could then post a rumour on the forums, or even drop a rumour in a few minutes possessing an NPC in game. A DM could accomplish much good, add much interest to the server, make adventuring more enticing vs. sitting about in a tavern all day, and all with minimal or no supervision.
rumours could be vague, danger would be of unknown difficulty, forcing people to group up and be prepared, stories could be woven visually with placed effects of blood and upturned carts or boiling stewpots full of elf ears or whatnot.
I guess what I'm saying is that taking a cave/dungeon/area and adding an interesting encounter to it with a small static reward would add a lot of life for very little investment of time. Adventurers could adventure, they could track clues in game or in the forum to find these new encounters, heck rival groups may even end up racing to find something if the clues are vague enough.
As with anything, there may be the potential for abuse, but goodness, it has to be worth the attempt to try and make the server feel a little more alive even when people have relatively little time to DM.
Think on it, come up with your own spins on it, I bet some great adventures, pc interactions and FUN of all things, could result
Berendil Audark portrait:
http://rapidshare.com/files/420857982/Berendil.tga
http://rapidshare.com/files/420857982/Berendil.tga
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Blindhamsterman
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Re: Minor Request
This idea, could be incredible at adding value to adventuring, right now, for the most part it's really not worth going for a walk, as Audark says, we've all (unless the PC is new to the server of course) seen the static content as it is. It also would mean that there's something to do for the groups that either can't be on when DMs are or for whatever reason aren't involved in the DMs regular events.Audark wrote:Just food for thought for any interested DMs:
Not every adventure needs to be tied to an epic tapestry of a story you are telling, not every adventure even needs you along for the ride. The DM client provides you with the ability to shake things up in a pseudo-static way on the server.
Many players, through one character or many, have seen most of the static content on TSM, the same caves full of kobolds, the same spawns in the same passes.
In very little time a DM could take one of these areas or somewhere out of the way, wipe the contents, add in a bunch of named brigands, or just various interesting spawns, add traps, lock doors, throw a chest or two with an item here and there based on the estimated encounter difficulty.
One could then post a rumour on the forums, or even drop a rumour in a few minutes possessing an NPC in game. A DM could accomplish much good, add much interest to the server, make adventuring more enticing vs. sitting about in a tavern all day, and all with minimal or no supervision.
rumours could be vague, danger would be of unknown difficulty, forcing people to group up and be prepared, stories could be woven visually with placed effects of blood and upturned carts or boiling stewpots full of elf ears or whatnot.
I guess what I'm saying is that taking a cave/dungeon/area and adding an interesting encounter to it with a small static reward would add a lot of life for very little investment of time. Adventurers could adventure, they could track clues in game or in the forum to find these new encounters, heck rival groups may even end up racing to find something if the clues are vague enough.
As with anything, there may be the potential for abuse, but goodness, it has to be worth the attempt to try and make the server feel a little more alive even when people have relatively little time to DM.
Think on it, come up with your own spins on it, I bet some great adventures, pc interactions and FUN of all things, could result
The best way to avoid abuse, would be add various challanges that would require multiple PC types, traps, locks, enemy spellcasters, tougher enemies, larger groups of enemies, enemies that threaten different types of AC (touch AC enemies such as warlocks spring to mind) even enemies with unusual abilities (hide in plain sight assassins, requiring the party to have someone with blindfighting or the blindsight spell!
) along with a disclaimer that difficulties will vary, so going alone should never be tried... There's no need for massive exp rewards to be given, and the loot, as Audark says could be done as an estimate of the difficulty or even an estimate of resources likely to have to be used, so the PCs maybe break even or a little over. Ultimately the fun comes from the adventure; Which is exactly what the majority of our PCs are supposed to be anyway, adventurers!
as Audark says, has to be worth a shot?
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NESchampion
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Re: Minor Request
As the head of a self-formed adventuring group in game I would love to see this done. Heck I'd volunteer for it; we usually hold regular nights Wed/Thurs but it's really hampered our characters in a number of ways, including financially, to continue to go out exploring the same caves.
How many times can you come up with the excuse of exploring a cave system to see if anything has changed over the course of months of RL time only to find not only has nothing changed at all but that you bear significant risk for paltry rewards? Oftentimes our group ends up losing coin going adventuring, because potions aren't cheap either. It's gotten to the point where it is wholly IC for our adventuring group not to adventure and explore because the risk is so much higher than the potential rewards.
How many times can you come up with the excuse of exploring a cave system to see if anything has changed over the course of months of RL time only to find not only has nothing changed at all but that you bear significant risk for paltry rewards? Oftentimes our group ends up losing coin going adventuring, because potions aren't cheap either. It's gotten to the point where it is wholly IC for our adventuring group not to adventure and explore because the risk is so much higher than the potential rewards.
Current PC: Olaf - The Silver Marches
Re: Minor Request
All the suggestions Audark makes are good ones and represent various DM styles and methods of engaging PCs and running adventures. Both Jayde and myself have said to players on various occasions "not every adventure is epic" and we often run things ad-hoc and completely off the cuff; a recent example of this probably would be the gnome wizard in TSM whose experiment with elementals went awry. Running such "random" events is a great way to make the server feel like a PW rather than a campaign world, offering the players something fun to do that's not necessarily some big heavy complex thing, and allowing the DM a breather from running the more complex, work intensive plots.
I think what players need to keep in mind is that even with "simple" adventures, as easy as it would seem to be on paper, it's not. In theory it's all very simple and neat but there is a reason why the attrition rate for DMs is so high and one of those reasons is that it is not anywhere near as simple as you think it is. I've been DMing NWN since 2004 and it's still difficult. For a brand new DM, the entire process is pretty friggin daunting. Theoretically, this is where DM Training should come in. Personally, I feel that 'DM Training' should include a lot more than just how to price items and how to work the client. Currently there really is no formal DM training of any sort, much less the kind which is really needed, namely "how to make an adventure happen" and all the various subheadings which go with that.
Just as a couple of random sidenotes, I will also say that watching PCs tavern RP in Silverymoon - a city protected by a mythal and where nothing bad can essentially ever happen - is entirely uninspiring when one logs in feeling like DMing but is not sure exactly what one wants to do. It essentially reduces the options of what a DM can do to "a man walks into a bar looking to hire adventurers to do X". Does that work? Sure, it can when it has to, but it sucks and is not really very fun for the DM. If I'm bored, I'm not into it. If I'm not into it, you are not going to have as much fun, if I even end up doing anything at all. When not DMing something specific to our global plot, Jayde and I are generally doing reactive DMing, namely, watching what YOU do and playing off that. I can do a lot more with you and am interested in doing a lot more with you if you are out in the world doing something other than having beers and talking about where you got your latest outfit. That being said, I also understand that there are only so many statics and only so many places to go on the server that you haven't already been in a hundred times before....then again, you've also been in the tavern a hundred times before so what's the difference? Try a change of scenery. Especially for a new DM it's going to be a hell of a lot easier to do something with you if you're already out exploring than if they have to start off by contriving a reason to get you out and exploring.
Of course having said all that, I do completely understand that
THIS
IS
ALFA!
and so you have other issues regarding getting out there besides just "I've seen this cave a hundred times before", namely, risk/reward. Lots of risk and not much reward. What can I say, I agree with you that it sucks. Run for admin and try to change it, I guess.
I think what players need to keep in mind is that even with "simple" adventures, as easy as it would seem to be on paper, it's not. In theory it's all very simple and neat but there is a reason why the attrition rate for DMs is so high and one of those reasons is that it is not anywhere near as simple as you think it is. I've been DMing NWN since 2004 and it's still difficult. For a brand new DM, the entire process is pretty friggin daunting. Theoretically, this is where DM Training should come in. Personally, I feel that 'DM Training' should include a lot more than just how to price items and how to work the client. Currently there really is no formal DM training of any sort, much less the kind which is really needed, namely "how to make an adventure happen" and all the various subheadings which go with that.
Just as a couple of random sidenotes, I will also say that watching PCs tavern RP in Silverymoon - a city protected by a mythal and where nothing bad can essentially ever happen - is entirely uninspiring when one logs in feeling like DMing but is not sure exactly what one wants to do. It essentially reduces the options of what a DM can do to "a man walks into a bar looking to hire adventurers to do X". Does that work? Sure, it can when it has to, but it sucks and is not really very fun for the DM. If I'm bored, I'm not into it. If I'm not into it, you are not going to have as much fun, if I even end up doing anything at all. When not DMing something specific to our global plot, Jayde and I are generally doing reactive DMing, namely, watching what YOU do and playing off that. I can do a lot more with you and am interested in doing a lot more with you if you are out in the world doing something other than having beers and talking about where you got your latest outfit. That being said, I also understand that there are only so many statics and only so many places to go on the server that you haven't already been in a hundred times before....then again, you've also been in the tavern a hundred times before so what's the difference? Try a change of scenery. Especially for a new DM it's going to be a hell of a lot easier to do something with you if you're already out exploring than if they have to start off by contriving a reason to get you out and exploring.
Of course having said all that, I do completely understand that
THIS
IS
ALFA!
and so you have other issues regarding getting out there besides just "I've seen this cave a hundred times before", namely, risk/reward. Lots of risk and not much reward. What can I say, I agree with you that it sucks. Run for admin and try to change it, I guess.
---Elsewhere---
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Blindhamsterman
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Re: Minor Request
the concept Audark and I had been sort of 'bouncing off eachother' is this:
Rather than even DMing the group per se, maybe log on, randomly spawn some unusual monsters in a couple of spots on the server, i guess spots that are travelled less often. If the DM in question has a little more time, spawn some unusual monsters in a couple of the various caves or dungeons, spawn some traps, spawn a little appropriate loot and then lock some doors.
Maybe post something really vague in the rumour thread about sightings in a region, this then gives players a good reason to go and look for adventure (as it might actually be there!). It doesn't need any plot in the sense of needing a DM actually online for the players to have fun, when stuff is unusual most of us are pretty good at 'filling in the gaps' and RPing around what we find and see.
This would in turn mean if you happen to log in while groups are out 'adventuring' it's much easier for you to take over some npcs in the region or expand it into something with more of a plot, or otherwise expand into something else you had actually planned.
Rather than even DMing the group per se, maybe log on, randomly spawn some unusual monsters in a couple of spots on the server, i guess spots that are travelled less often. If the DM in question has a little more time, spawn some unusual monsters in a couple of the various caves or dungeons, spawn some traps, spawn a little appropriate loot and then lock some doors.
Maybe post something really vague in the rumour thread about sightings in a region, this then gives players a good reason to go and look for adventure (as it might actually be there!). It doesn't need any plot in the sense of needing a DM actually online for the players to have fun, when stuff is unusual most of us are pretty good at 'filling in the gaps' and RPing around what we find and see.
This would in turn mean if you happen to log in while groups are out 'adventuring' it's much easier for you to take over some npcs in the region or expand it into something with more of a plot, or otherwise expand into something else you had actually planned.
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Swift
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Re: Minor Request
The mythal protects against very grand threats but does absolutely nothing to prevent the same kind of crimes that plague any city. Muggings, murder, theft etc. Silverymoon would have a criminal underbelly, just like any other place. It certainly does not protect against evil humans/elves/gnomes/half orcs.Mirabai wrote:Just as a couple of random sidenotes, I will also say that watching PCs tavern RP in Silverymoon - a city protected by a mythal and where nothing bad can essentially ever happen - is entirely uninspiring when one logs in feeling like DMing but is not sure exactly what one wants to do. It essentially reduces the options of what a DM can do to "a man walks into a bar looking to hire adventurers to do X".
It is also ripe for political intrigue, though I have noticed most players don't really enjoy that.
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Blindhamsterman
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Re: Minor Request
[quote]It is also ripe for political intrigue, though I have noticed most players don't really enjoy that.[/quote]
also requires that your PC is involved in politics
though I'd be quite interested to get involved in a plot along the lines of this if you wished to run it Swift
also requires that your PC is involved in politics
though I'd be quite interested to get involved in a plot along the lines of this if you wished to run it Swift
Re: Minor Request
+1Blindhamsterman wrote:also requires that your PC is involved in politicsIt is also ripe for political intrigue, though I have noticed most players don't really enjoy that.
though I'd be quite interested to get involved in a plot along the lines of this if you wished to run it Swift
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Swift
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Re: Minor Request
You dont have to be involved in politics to get caught up in the political schemes or the ambitious elite
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Blindhamsterman
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Re: Minor Request
nope, just need to be about when folk that fit that description are or a DM to cause such mischief is! I shall keep my open for you 
Re: Minor Request
While I understand the desire for these "static, one-off" adventures left there to linger until some PCs find it, my first thought was this:
It's all work and no fun for the DM. You labor to create the encounters, probably even more so to try to create a semblance of balance without you actively on to help it, but don't get the fun of playing it through with your players. Of course I'm not DMing TSM, but for my part, I would refuse for the simple selfish reason that I play the game, even as DM, for my own fun.
It's all work and no fun for the DM. You labor to create the encounters, probably even more so to try to create a semblance of balance without you actively on to help it, but don't get the fun of playing it through with your players. Of course I'm not DMing TSM, but for my part, I would refuse for the simple selfish reason that I play the game, even as DM, for my own fun.
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Blindhamsterman
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Re: Minor Request
probably the first reasonable arguement against the suggestion of mini static adventures I think, you're correct, a DM should have fun too.
The main reason for the suggestion was to give folk that Don't get much (or any) DM time something to do.
As you yourself mentioned in another thread, a PC loses worth and meaning without being able to DO things, adventure, learn a little secret etc. And currently, without a DM these things are impossible.
The obvious answer is: Get more DMs, but they certainly aren't growing on trees, and both myself and Audark (the ones that initially brought up this concept) have applied to DM, to 'do our part' as it were.
The main reason for the suggestion was to give folk that Don't get much (or any) DM time something to do.
As you yourself mentioned in another thread, a PC loses worth and meaning without being able to DO things, adventure, learn a little secret etc. And currently, without a DM these things are impossible.
The obvious answer is: Get more DMs, but they certainly aren't growing on trees, and both myself and Audark (the ones that initially brought up this concept) have applied to DM, to 'do our part' as it were.
Re: Minor Request
Swift said
The mythal protects against very grand threats but does absolutely nothing to prevent the same kind of crimes that plague any city. Muggings, murder, theft etc. Silverymoon would have a criminal underbelly, just like any other place. It certainly does not protect against evil humans/elves/gnomes/half orcs.
It is also ripe for political intrigue, though I have noticed most players don't really enjoy that.
+1 one to that ..Bards/Rogues skilled types would enjoy this
I know a Pally that worked with and against "dock gangs" in SM..as did a bard alongside and without her...tavern crawling can be dangerous and exciting..and usually finds you reasons to be outside the taverns.."patrolling docks walls moving from docks of silvvy to Rm..or other generally "seedy" areas..but I digress
The Mini-static Ideas is great for any DM that feels comfy with it..if they don't *shrug* never a good idea to maker those that help us for free uncomfy....One suggestion I would make is make sure their is a warning or place out of the way enough that a New Player to Alfa does nort stumb le into "insta-death" yes they would most likely die alone to the Koiobolds..but even they would know if they stumbled on an injured "Young Dragon" That they never even stood a chance of running. But an out of the way static..something in out lying caves..yes "rubs hands" great and it coulds supply content for medium-high level chars ..something we don't cater too as much because we afre always working hard to attract "nerw people" Something that is neccessary..but keeping others is also neccessary.
The mythal protects against very grand threats but does absolutely nothing to prevent the same kind of crimes that plague any city. Muggings, murder, theft etc. Silverymoon would have a criminal underbelly, just like any other place. It certainly does not protect against evil humans/elves/gnomes/half orcs.
It is also ripe for political intrigue, though I have noticed most players don't really enjoy that.
+1 one to that ..Bards/Rogues skilled types would enjoy this
I know a Pally that worked with and against "dock gangs" in SM..as did a bard alongside and without her...tavern crawling can be dangerous and exciting..and usually finds you reasons to be outside the taverns.."patrolling docks walls moving from docks of silvvy to Rm..or other generally "seedy" areas..but I digress
The Mini-static Ideas is great for any DM that feels comfy with it..if they don't *shrug* never a good idea to maker those that help us for free uncomfy
....One suggestion I would make is make sure their is a warning or place out of the way enough that a New Player to Alfa does nort stumb le into "insta-death" yes they would most likely die alone to the Koiobolds..but even they would know if they stumbled on an injured "Young Dragon" That they never even stood a chance of running. But an out of the way static..something in out lying caves..yes "rubs hands" great and it coulds supply content for medium-high level chars ..something we don't cater too as much because we afre always working hard to attract "nerw people" Something that is neccessary..but keeping others is also neccessary.-
oldgrayrogue
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Re: Minor Request
DMing is story telling, it is interacting with players, but that is not the only part of it that can be fun, especially on a PW. I am sure many DMs find it rewarding when they log in and hear PCs RPing about an ad hoc event they cooked up off the cuff. By providing ad hoc static content as suggested you are in fact story telling because you are creating a mini story for others to RP about. This can be fun and rewarding. It was for me. When I DMd on BG all of my DMing was ad hoc. I just did not have the time for set campaign slots or long drawn out epic plots. It was still fun, and I received 100% positive feedback from the players I interacted with.
Leaving around static content is indeed story telling, and frankly as a DM over the years I have found that sometimes the best grand tales start out spontaneously over some ad hoc event that didn't even have a story behind it. I will give an example. A while ago one of my PCs was out exploring (at lvl 2 I think) and found the skeleton of a wizard slain in the wilds. The skeleton had a few items on it of little consequence, but also a tome about the study of dragons. For IC reasons my PC felt compelled to transport this mage's remains to Silverymoon for burial. He ran into another PC who, as chance would have it, was very interested in dragons. My PC shows him the book and suddenly it seems like fate has brought them together. A DM lurking notices this interaction and runs a little mini event with the tome of dragons at the center of it. This was always my style: throw something random out there and see what the PCs do with it. If it interests you as a DM feed off of that and make it into a story. This could easily have been the jump off for a grand tale to tell. As it turned out it was just a little static content left for someone to find, some interesting RP over that find, and a small event that followed. Still hugely enjoyable when compared to what I would have done as a player had my toon NOT found that mage's skeleton.
That little tid bit was left behind by former DM Cloud. I am sure that the praise I gave her in tells for that little gem she left by the roadside made her feel a little bit good. Maybe it even motivated her to DM more, who knows. I do know this: that very simple little ad hoc piece of static content turned into a very nice little spontaneous story for a while. The unexpected usually does. That's why the guys who created D&D made a lot of things turn on the throw of the dice.
Leaving around static content is indeed story telling, and frankly as a DM over the years I have found that sometimes the best grand tales start out spontaneously over some ad hoc event that didn't even have a story behind it. I will give an example. A while ago one of my PCs was out exploring (at lvl 2 I think) and found the skeleton of a wizard slain in the wilds. The skeleton had a few items on it of little consequence, but also a tome about the study of dragons. For IC reasons my PC felt compelled to transport this mage's remains to Silverymoon for burial. He ran into another PC who, as chance would have it, was very interested in dragons. My PC shows him the book and suddenly it seems like fate has brought them together. A DM lurking notices this interaction and runs a little mini event with the tome of dragons at the center of it. This was always my style: throw something random out there and see what the PCs do with it. If it interests you as a DM feed off of that and make it into a story. This could easily have been the jump off for a grand tale to tell. As it turned out it was just a little static content left for someone to find, some interesting RP over that find, and a small event that followed. Still hugely enjoyable when compared to what I would have done as a player had my toon NOT found that mage's skeleton.
That little tid bit was left behind by former DM Cloud. I am sure that the praise I gave her in tells for that little gem she left by the roadside made her feel a little bit good. Maybe it even motivated her to DM more, who knows. I do know this: that very simple little ad hoc piece of static content turned into a very nice little spontaneous story for a while. The unexpected usually does. That's why the guys who created D&D made a lot of things turn on the throw of the dice.