A Land Far Away

Now that the statics are all fixed, there is no reason to watch newb PC's fret over not being able to finish them by themselves, or worse yet trying and dying. I know a few people are like me and actively help newbie PC's, but already the ALFA custom of ignoring those your PC doesn't already know is starting to rear its ugly head, and we're only second level! I'd rather not see us go down that road again. I always hated the supposedly IC mentality of staying only with those you know and ignoring newcomers, even though at 1st level that PC acted differently. Be inclusive folks! I know many of those statics are not IC repeatable, but a good roleplayer can find a way around that. After all, humanoids breed like rabbits and thus replenish themselves often.

It isn't a huge problem yet, and lots of people are being inclusive, but the trend is clear and it was a HUGE problem in NWN1 so I'm making this suggestion early.

I've seen it as well though it is funny to watch groups ignore newcomers unless one of them had died and re-rolled back to Level 1

Boredom breeds death and frustration for new players so interacting with them early on is key to keeping them as long term ALFAns.

Kate

MorbidKate wrote:I've seen it as well though it is funny to watch groups ignore newcomers unless one of them had died and re-rolled back to Level 1

So far in ALFA2 I've seen the opposite. When a PC (Shard) died, he rerolled shortly thereafter and everyone seem uninterested in the new PC. This may have partly been because the mourning of the current PC was still going on (he attend his own funeral as another PC), but it was certainly clear that little of the PCs had any interest in the new concept.

Mulu wrote:It isn't a huge problem yet, and lots of people are being inclusive, but the trend is clear and it was a HUGE problem in NWN1 so I'm making this suggestion early.

This is really dependent on the situation/PC. For some PCs, they really don't see others being worth a damn outside of a select few (lord knows mine feels that way, and the list is growing shorter with every action everyone else begins to take). I remember a case was with TVS back in vanilla ALFA way back, where the people on the server didn't care much for/did not grow attached to new PCs, because 9/10 times said PC would be dead in a matter of days. As of right now, I don't see many doing the "exclusive" attitude outside of those who did it right from the beginning.

I guess that's just what I've seen. I often see new PCs ignoring other players and going off to solo statics rather than request help. My PC has also given his IC reasons for not helping in Rivermoot for most statics, and that's only due to a specific DM event currently going on (orc invasion). Any notion of going into the hills to attack orcs is viewed as reckless and problem-causing, and often he has choice words to say before he outright refuses. High Hold is a different story, mind you, but that would involve staying there to see all the newer PCs arrive.

I blame the banites

Dorn wrote:I blame the banites

Surprisingly, the Banites are willing to talk to anyone (probably because they wish to convert them). It's the rumours that they're out to murder everyone that makes the new PCs avoid them, haha.

My PC hates all other PCs equally.

Magile wrote:So far in ALFA2 I've seen the opposite. When a PC (Shard) died, he rerolled shortly thereafter and everyone seem uninterested in the new PC. This may have partly been because the mourning of the current PC was still going on (he attend his own funeral as another PC), but it was certainly clear that little of the PCs had any interest in the new concept.

In our defense, the new concept was insane.

Magile wrote:For some PCs, they really don't see others being worth a damn outside of a select few

Right, but if a lot of people do this it kills the game, and they *don't* do this until they themselves have at least a level or two under their belts, so it's technically meta being level based behavior.

Basically ALFAns have a choice between IC fidelity to an exclusionary PC concept, or playing D&D. I think playing D&D is a lot more fun, and will lead to more active players. Nothing kills our player base faster than new players getting snubbed by old players. Nothing. Even if it has some legitimate IC "I don't talk to strangers" reason behind it, it's just not a fun game to play as the newcomer.

I have a lot of bad memories of ALFA NWN1 and encountering this phenomenon far too much, and I remember well other players commenting on it to me as they walked out the door to play elsewhere.

Magile wrote:I guess that's just what I've seen. I often see new PCs ignoring other players and going off to solo statics rather than request help.

I've seen this too, but there may be a feedback loop involved, where they originally got snubbed and then just said to themselves "screw it" and went off to do their own thing.

I'm not saying everyone needs to bend over backwards to run statics with newbies, but a more inclusive playstyle and at least occasionally doing so will lead to a much healthier and longer lasting server in the long run. In other words, it is in our own best interests to keep new players interested in playing here, rather than just "stick to the clique" as it were. Heck, same goes for DM's really. Admin and the build teams have been focused on not repeating the mistakes of the past regarding runaway loot and leveling and so are entirely focused on nerfs and caps, and understandably so, but the far more important issue is not repeating the gameplay mistakes of the past and ensuring we actually have players, and that means being newbie friendly, all of us.

/rant.

Or you can play an outwardly social and friendly character, too, so it'd be in character to talk to new people.

Of course, this has to flow both ways. New players need to make some effort to introduce themselves and join in the RP, not just get pissy because their one comment of "Can anyone help with <insert>" gets rebuffed/ignored. They cannot expect others to a) know they are new and b) jump up and down with wide open arms pulling them into the game.

Effort needs to be made from both sides. Sheldan isn't going to divert himself from his studies to walk across the tavern and introduce himself to a PC drinking alone just because they are new to ALFA.

As I am sure most of you have seen, my character introduces herself to just about everyone who comes along - true, she does is it .. well.. curtly ("Who are you?" "I am Velya ...") And what I find is about half the "newbs" want to talk and RP and all is good.

And about half don't even really stop because they are off on to a static. I am constantly telling people IC "Don't go out alone" but few seem to listen. I have not seen "old timers" (like 2 1/2 weeks is old) ignoring Newbs, but more the other way around. But maybe that is just me.

Avaz wrote:Or you can play an outwardly social and friendly character, too, so it'd be in character to talk to new people.

If a player doesn't want to rp with you it doesn't really matter what you roll up. I don't think anyone is really complaining about it yet but the concern is out there that it could happen all over again. Nothing wrong with being mindful and I've gotten my share of Tells IG that it's still a valid concern.

With so many people using new login names it's hard to tell old from new so it's interesting to see some older players getting snubbed a bit as well because others thought they were njubs to ALFA. The statics do force player interaction and that's excellent but once they are done with them and gotten a level or two they tend to suddenly become more anti-social. At least a bit of RP interaction with low levels, njubs especially is a healthy thing and should be encouraged whenever possible.

Kate

Mikayla wrote:And about half don't even really stop because they are off on to a static. I am constantly telling people IC "Don't go out alone" but few seem to listen. I have not seen "old timers" (like 2 1/2 weeks is old) ignoring Newbs, but more the other way around. But maybe that is just me.

I think the njubs are nowhere near expecting that so many of the statics require combat and a party of friends so they die quickly going out alone. Maybe have the Marshall stress the need for grouping a bit more perhaps? The njubs that die quickly usually start to RP for help after that. A lot of the solo artists I've seen this week are older players who've died elsewhere and now know what they can and can't kill around Rivermoot without backup.

I rolled up my first toon on LoudWater so grouping up and going slow and steady is just a part of me. Players from other PWs come in with quite the opposite mindset so it's easy to forget just how much of a change it is for new players to adjust.

Anyway, I don't see it a cause for concern yet as much as something to be mindful of going forward.

Kate

Swift wrote:Effort needs to be made from both sides. Sheldan isn't going to divert himself from his studies to walk across the tavern and introduce himself to a PC drinking alone just because they are new to ALFA.

This is exactly what I am talking about. You absolutely should introduce yourself to a new PC drinking alone, that's called "playing the game of D&D" and as the experienced member the burden is appropriately placed on you, not the nervous newbie.

I don't see it as a big problem yet either, but I wanted to raise awareness early before it did become an entrenched problem, as I was already starting to see the signs. We need to change our culture if we're going to prosper.

And yes, I also always roll up PC's that are socially gregarious so that it is IC to behave like this. I call it adaptive RP: Being IC'ly social is adaptive to the PW environment, whereas being IC'ly antisocial is maladaptive to the PW environment. Play whatever you want, of course, but be mindful of the repercussions.

And help the newbs!

I think Mulu has a good point and it goes a long way towards benefitting ALFA in general by ensuring a healthy player base.

As an older player people should remember, ALFA is known (rightly or wrongly) as a high exclusive RP server, and it is one of the few that actually takes some work to join the player base of.

It's worth remembering that people who have just joined are probably slightly nervous and unsure of how to proceed. For the most part it is much easier for someone in a group of PCs who obviously know each other to introduce themselves to the newcomer than for him or her to insert themselves into an already ongoing conversation.

There's always an in game reason not to talk to newcomers, in the same way, in real life, we don't normally introduce ourselves to everyone who happens to be in the same bar/shop/plaza etc., with us, but the simple process of including someone can and will go a long way to making their gaming experience rewarding enough to keep them coming back and eventually becoming helpful and valuable members of the community as well.

Yes talk to new people, you could prevent their death, or...in my case, delay it a bit