Surprise Spawns

[Audark]

I would also prefer 'masterfully crafted and managed' encounters by DMs who can weave me into a great story.

The fact is that DM attention is light at best, and nonexistant for some timezones. Static content already exists on TSM that will kill people stone dead if they take on too much, random spawns already exist on TSM that will do the same. If someone walks alone into the unknown in Faerun, they should be dead, or have a strong chance of becoming so. As much as some folk hate knowing PCs could die to something random, I hate even more walking across vast stretches of supposedly dangerous fantastical wilderness and seeing precisely nothing beyond the foliage.

Players drive the game in ALFA, I've seen it time and again, they can do a lot with very little DM attention, they can stay interested with only a few hours attention here and there.

I am so in favour of this I'm frothing at the mouth I want adventures, adventures damnit, if we get more DMs, glorious, until then this seems like it could make the game more varied and exciting.

[Blindhamsterman]

*pulls on his cloak, straps his sword to his side and sets out beside the daring ranger wishing they had a friend skilled in disarming traps and unlocking doors*

a short period of time passes....

*wishes the duo also had a healer as he valiantly attempts to re-attach his arm*

[mogonk]

I would question why all three of those PCs were so obsessed with exterminating lizards and/or spelunking that they kept on going into those caves.

Some people do prefer adventuring rather than sit in a bar to talk about their feelings. DnD is about adventuring after all.

So, does your character know he's in a D&D game? Then how does he know what D&D is "about"? Or are you actually advocating metagaming?

"Adventuring" and "going into a cave I've been to 100 times before to kill lizards" are a bit different. Adventuring is something a character wants to do. Killing lizards for xp is something a player wants to do. Coming up with rationalizations for your character to do things that make more money and gain more xp is not roleplaying. The fewer opportunities we give people to profitably engage in that BS, the better.

Audark's suggestion about requiring players to see a DM for a reward is a good one, in the sense that it will make the uneven distribution of wealth and xp more obvious. Still doesn't provide a solution to be implemented when it does become obvious, which it will. I fail to see the point of implementing a program we know is flawed while reassuring ourselves that we will shut it down when evidence of the flaws we already know it has is produced.

If we have a problem with large groups of players not seeing DM time, the solution isn't to make time without DMs more bearable. It's to get more DM coverage.

[Ksiel]

If you want this come on over to BG, I have been doing this since right after I became a DM and Dirsa gripped about the Cloakwood not being dangerous anymore.

*Ksiel recruits for BG server*

[Audark]

'get more DM coverage' is an easy thing to say, and an incredibly difficult thing to realize.

We all want more DM coverage, but DMs don't spring up overnight, if they did I doubt we'd even be having this conversation.

In any case, implementing this is ultimately within the ability of any given DM, some apparently already do this, so it's not really for us to decide. If a DM wants to do this, they can, if they don't, they won't.

I see no problem making DM-less time more interesting, I think that is the goal of all static content on our servers. I want content, and as much of it as possible, DMed or not, static or not, tied to a big plot or not, more content, more variety, more interest from the players.

As far as I can tell, the only way we have consistently got new DMs is by making the game fun, having lots of people play, and eventually some of those folks want to DM. I'm eager to see something fun to do when DMs aren't around, which is the majority of the time, and I know the majority of those I play with agree.

Any negatives to me are minuscule in comparison to providing something fun to do, in alfa we sometimes let the pursuit of perfect balance get in the way of the fun, much to our detriment.

((also I've just applied as a DM to BG, so I am in fact trying to be part of the solution here with more DM time))

[dergon darkhelm]

Subject: Surprise Spawns

'get more DM coverage' is an easy thing to say, and an incredibly difficult thing to realize.


((also I've just applied as a DM to BG, so I am in fact trying to be part of the solution here with more DM time))

+1 -- to sentence #1

Whoo hoo! --to sentence #2

[Xanthea]

"Adventuring" and "going into a cave I've been to 100 times before to kill lizards" are a bit different. Adventuring is something a character wants to do. Killing lizards for xp is something a player wants to do. Coming up with rationalizations for your character to do things that make more money and gain more xp is not roleplaying. The fewer opportunities we give people to profitably engage in that BS, the better.

I'm sure everyone would be a lot happier if there were fifty thousand areas in game and people could adventure without ever seeing the same area twice. That'd be a lot more fun and a lot more realistic, considering the size the world is supposed to be.

However, there isn't, so we're all forced to make compromises and use the handful of adventuring zones to represent the huge world that should be there for adventuring in.

[mogonk]

'get more DM coverage' is an easy thing to say, and an incredibly difficult thing to realize.

Absolutely. No argument on that, but reliance on static content does not help.

Propose a DM mentoring program, I'll support it. Propose a DM recruiting drive. DM classes. Prize money for "Best DM of the Month". Anything that actually helps with the real issue instead of masking it.

The idea that by making time spent on ALFA more "fun" in the hack and slash sense of the word we will encourage more people to DM doesn't hold water at all.

[Mirabai]

omg, you people do so love to turn any simple question or idea into LOLOMG DRAMA!!1

heehee

Seriously though, I'm not talking about placing a crew of ogre bandits smack in the middle of the road between Silverymoon and Rauvenwatch. I'm talking about place-appropriate, flavorful and interesting surprise encounters where it would make sense for there to be some, which also happens to be places where people who are not really confident in their skills (aka low levels) should be wandering around alone anyway. And if you are lower level and want to wander around, you should have a party of some kind with you, at the very least a stealthy scout to make sure a dire bear isn't sitting around the bend waiting for a snack. If you decide to go for a walk in the Moonwood with your level 2 fighter, smashing and jingling your way through the underbrush, you should expect to be eaten. It's dangerous, or it should be.

As others have already pointed out, what I'm talking about is not so far mechanically or danger-wise from what already exists. If you get on the travel map night or day you are chancing a scripted random encounter. These encounters do not factor in party size or levels of the PCs so you might wander upon a couple of goblins, or something much, much nastier. There are scripted spawns all throughout the server which will try to eat you already with no help from me. The difference with what I'm talking about is flavor and the fun of the unexpected. What's more interesting to encounter, the same undead who are in the same area around fourthpeak every single time you walk through there, or like Brokenbone says, a small encampment of goblins in the woods, perhaps with something nasty in the cookpot and a crude map on a log detailing their plans to invade Auvendell and steal the baker's daughter?

As for posting in the rumors thread, making NPCs with special conversations, etc etc... I probably won't be doing that. Why? Well the whole reason I thought about doing this in the first place is because I hear you all and totally understand your frustrations at the limited DMage. Fact is, we all have lives. NWN is a hobby and DMing is extremely time intensive. My idea for placing surprise encounters around is so that I can hop on to the server real quick, spend 20 minutes to a half hour coming up with and creating an encounter, then log off and proceed with my day. The point is not to spend all kinds of time writing crap in the rumors thread and tooling up special NPCs.

So there you have it.

[Blindhamsterman]

sounds good, simply means that those of us who choose to risk travelling the less travelled paths, should prepare 'get away plans' ahead of time

note to all, there are boots of expeditious retreat available, these, would probably be invaluable

[NESchampion]

e: On second thought, this is getting a bit off the subject on my part into what constitutes in-character reasons for adventuring. Going to stick with that I support this idea for the benefit of promoting adventure and RP.

[Killthorne]

Dungeons and Dragons is about adventuring.. that's why crazy yahoos seeking fortune and glory are called "adventurers."

~Killy~

[mogonk]

And if you are lower level and want to wander around, you should have a party of some kind with you, at the very least a stealthy scout to make sure a dire bear isn't sitting around the bend waiting for a snack. If you decide to go for a walk in the Moonwood with your level 2 fighter, smashing and jingling your way through the underbrush, you should expect to be eaten. It's dangerous, or it should be.

"So, you realize that rewards and 'fun' from this will be unevenly distributed, right?"

"Yeah, that's the whole point! It doesn't suck nearly enough to be low level in the status quo! We need to add more content for high level players that will kill the lowbies if they even try to play the game. That's more realistic."

I mean...what? "It should be"? Really? Why? Because that's how it would be in the "real" Faerun? ALFA isn't a Faerun simulator, it's a game. The fact that any given action would play out a certain way if Faerun were a real place is irrelevant.

An encounter that is appropriate for 3 lvl 4 PCs will absolutely murder a group of 5 lvl 2s. They may win, but people will die. Party size doesn't make up for inappropriate CRs, and you know that. Anybody who has DM'd, or even read the DMG, knows that.

The fact that its mechanically similar to the existing system is irrelevant as well. The proposal would be in addition to the existing spawns, right? Meaning that it would exaggerate the effect that any static spawn system has.

It will increase the rich-poor gap, increase the level gap, result in the deaths of more low lvl characters, and encourage metagaming. I haven't heard anybody step up to claim otherwise. What is it, exactly, that justifies this?

Maybe it's the "fun" that everyone keeps talking about..."fun" referring to hacking up a bunch of anonymous NPCs, free from distractions of plot or character, in order to get at a chest full of loot. Seriously, if that's extremely fun for you, I heard about this awesome game called World of Warcraft.

If that's what people think playing in ALFA should consist of...well, I don't even know what to say to that. Maybe I just shouldn't say anything.

[psycho_leo]

I would question why all three of those PCs were so obsessed with exterminating lizards and/or spelunking that they kept on going into those caves.

Some people do prefer adventuring rather than sit in a bar to talk about their feelings. DnD is about adventuring after all.

So, does your character know he's in a D&D game? Then how does he know what D&D is "about"? Or are you actually advocating metagaming?

I'm advocating having fun. You realize that's what I'm here for, right? I'm not saying you have to hit the same cave every day, or week or whatever. But between actual adventure and sitting on a bar talking about adventure... yeah.

[Audark]

I think you and I mogonk simply disagree fundamentally, and that's ok, it's a great strength of ALFA that people with varied ideas can operate within the same framework together.

To me, fighting some random NPCs is fun, I always take along good companions and there is RP throughout, and I enjoy that, RP under tension. I simply do not see enough DM time right now for my liking, and I know that I can enjoy the game without a DM because I do so very often, this would simply enhance my game until there is more DM time.

I do not feel the need to justify what I want, I think this is a good idea, it would make the game more fun for me, that's the only reason I have, I know I can make these random encounters into fun little stories with just the characters I have with me, we can plan attacks, think about strategies, RP through it all.

I'm sorry we do not agree, but this isn't so much a debate as it is two sides loudly speaking their minds. It is also, despite the poll, not a democratic choice, it will be done, or not, at the DMs pleasure.

I see the potential fun, for me, as vastly outweighing any potential negatives, which to me, are negligible. I'll comment no further, I would like to see this in game, and I do not see a continued debate doing anything positive,