The Old Order

[Kirin]

Looking for more info on monks of the Old Order in FR. I like what little of them I can find, but having more would be helpful in coming up with a more detailed character history.

From what I understand, they do not follow a specific God, merely a sort of Daoist philosophy. My plan was to have an Old order monk who pays lip-service to Shaundakul, as she is traveling across the world to find her place in it.

[hollyfant]

The Old Order is mostly known for having next to no canonical information available...

From what I understand, they do not follow a specific God, merely a sort of Daoist philosophy.

Actually... they're specificly required to be faithless: a denouncement of the special position of the Gods.

My plan was to have an Old order monk who pays lip-service to Shaundakul, as she is traveling across the world to find her place in it.

You don't need to pretend to worship a God to respect that God or His followers. Or you can take a few levels in bluff, and just lie. Or you can pick another order, or even... no order - they're not required.

If this was my character idea, I'd switch to a Sun Soul monk worshipping Selûne. Travelling the world, guided by the stars... it could work.

[Kirin]

Ah, I think I misinterpreted Old Order monks. I didn't realize that they were taking a philosophical stance AGAINST the Gods. That...seems a bit silly of them, considering what happens to Faithless. Dare I say, it seems unwise of them.

Back to the drawing board on monk orders. Pity, I really liked the mystique of the Old Order.

[hollyfant]

seems a bit silly of them, considering what happens to Faithless. Dare I say, it seems unwise of them.

It's not so bad, really. I mean, all that happens is that you slowly disappear in the Wall.
Preferable to the fates of followers of the evil Gods, I'd say.

[NickD]

On a tenuously related note, is there a monk order for Ao?

[Kirin]

On a tenuously related note, is there a monk order for Ao?

I think it's IMPLIED the old Order might follow Ao...which is pointless, as he doesn't get involved in mortal affairs.

This is the only blurb I can find on Old Order:

Monks of the Old Order do not worship any deity, but are devoted to the philosophy espoused by a deity who is either now dead or has never existed on the Material Plane of Toril. The monks contradict themselves at this point, but the deity's identity is not important to them, it's the message they care about. The Old Order never has huge monasteries, but has spread widely throughout Faerun.

[NickD]

I think it's IMPLIED the old Order might follow Ao...which is pointless, as he doesn't get involved in mortal affairs.

That's sort of kinda the impression I got as well. Hmm... if I ever get around to making a monk, he was going to be a "priest" of Ao. I don't think the Old Order are overt enough for it to be a fit for him though.

[ElCadaver]

So, it would be pretty sweet being a priest of Ao, cause you could do pretty much what ever you like, cause Ao isn't going to care either way. Would be an interesting 'priest' to play.

"Hey may, I'm a priest of Ao, so I can use big swords and use magical items and healbot 10 times an hour, and then party all night with the chicky babes, and Ao is fine with that. If you don't think so, why don't you ask him yourself?"

[danielmn]

Partly correct...a Preist of Ao would be a...complete waist.

FRCS - Page 258 - "He answer's no mortal prayers, grants no spells to mortals, and has not been heard from since the end of the Godswar".

Essectially, there are no clerics of Ao, because he doesn't grant prayers, so the healbot is out. But you COULD play a preistlike PC, without divine spells, which would be a fun concept in and of itself.

[NickD]

Ya. I was thinking of something like a quasi Christian missionary character. But with kung fu.

[Kirin]

Partly correct...a Preist of Ao would be a...complete waist.

FRCS - Page 258 - "He answer's no mortal prayers, grants no spells to mortals, and has not been heard from since the end of the Godswar".

Essectially, there are no clerics of Ao, because he doesn't grant prayers, so the healbot is out. But you COULD play a preistlike PC, without divine spells, which would be a fun concept in and of itself.

But could they be raised by clerics of other deities? That was my major concern with playing an Old Order monk.

[hollyfant]

But could they be raised by clerics of other deities?

Divine magic has, in a way, two sources: the caster who has to go through the motions, and the deity who supplies the raw power. If either of them refuses, there's no magic.
As a rule, the gods don't actually check on everything; that's what they have those priests for in the first place. It's the cleric (druid, ranger, whatever)'s job to make sure the power is used responsibly. So if the cleric wants to raise a faithless dead, he could.

However gods are powered by worship. So people who denounce gods are the enemies of all gods. And thus enemies of the priests. In the rare situation where a priest attempts to bring a faithless person back to life, said priest would almost certainly lose their connection to their god, and their powers. The raise might still work, but only if the god (who at that point should be aware of the situation) allows it. For instance: I guess Sune could perhaps allow a lost lover being brought back to life, but the performing priest would still fall from grace.

And all of that is disregarding the question whether a faithless person would want to owe their live to a god they've always renounced. The dead do have a choice in this matter: when you are being raised, you automagically know the name of the priest and their allegiance.

[Kirin]

If Old Order follows Ao, as suggested, then they're not Faithless in the manner of other faithless and don't necessarily denounce Gods. They'll still end up in the wall since Ao ignores them, but it changes the perspective of things a bit.

There's nothing that says the Old Order rejects the other Gods, or doesn't believe in them. Only that they follow one who it is futile to follow. A person can allow themselves to be raised for a number of reasons; feeling it was not their time, or that they did not want to die.

Old Order is almost always good or neutral, and rarely evil. I think depending on the monk, other deities would be more open to raising them than you suggest. They probably wouldn't have much opinion on the decision, since Old Order monks have picked the Switzerland of faiths and aren't much involved in the squabbles of other deities.

Well, except most of the evil deities. They're selfish with raises.

[Happycrow]

This gets perilously close to the FR "involuntary prayer" thing.
Every time the "retired" blackguard enjoys his rose garden, he empowers Chauntea. Every time he lounges among his silken tapestries enjoying the gorgeous sculptures of his victims set up in his secret-sanctum-of-evil, he's empowering Sune.

A worshipper of Ao might be brought back without repercussion, if his or her actions redounded dramatically to the benefit of a specific deity. Could be Shar, if his well-intended proselytizing on the uselessness of worshipping "Ao's servants" were sufficiently nihilistic in tone.

DM-judgment-call-palooza.

[hollyfant]

DM-judgment-call-palooza.

Definitely.